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This in the same year that;
1. HP stopped funding our pension.
2. HP reduced the interest rate on our existing pension funds (undisclosed)
3. 401k matching fund rates were dropped
4. A 5% paycut effective in mid-March
5. An additional 10% pay cut for the month of April
6. Financial reportings would have you believe that HP Enterprise Services had an amazing year and is the only reason that HP is in the black. Oh, but don't let me forget how magnanamous HP was when it came to light that despite their best efforts they had to report a profit and they could no longer justify the imposed 5% pay cut. So they gave us a "bonus" of the amount they cut our pay & included it in our mid December pay which raised my tax rate for my entire check not just on the bonus. (Oh yeah, I saw where taxes for the executives bonus are paid for by the company and the stockholders. So when an executive gets his $28.5 million, he actually gets $28.5 million)
7. EDS executives walked away with more that $150 million for selling out EDS.
I have heard rumblings of a blue flu day in March to show the executives how happy we are about their compensation versus ours and the fact that our pay is still cut 5%, and we never received the 10% from april that they took from us. Do you think the executives will also get a bonus of 3.25%?
below are the inflation rate for the different year:
2003 3.10%
2004 3.10%
2005 5.50%
2006 7.60%
2007 6.20%
2008 2.80%
2009 9.30%
here in the philippines thaey are more interested in hiring people from other company for higher position than to promote the people who are within the company for years. if you need other information just send me an email :)
HP Employee
Seriously, you people could bring this to a screeching halt right here and now if you joined forces, withheld your labour and got courageous enough to join a forceful union. What do you have to lose?
Unions are difficult to form here in Texas due to a misguided ideal that they (unions) are the source of many of the labour problems that exist today in various parts of the country. While some of the reputation of the unions is based on past union abuses of power, most are based on misconceptions and a conserted effort by big business to turn the word "union" into a dirty word. I do however believe that the abuses of the corporations and banks are begining to swing the pendulum back in favor of the unions. Time will tell. I myself intend to start my own business and enjoy watching the wheels fall off of HP from the outside.
This is the Cheapest company I've ever seen.
Maybe Turd could have spent some of his bonus, and saved us unemployed workers some money.
Merry Christmas from HP, the cheapest company in the world
I echo your sentiment...
http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/spring04/forced.html
http://performance-appraisals.org/faq/yanklegal...
Now why would the execs do that? Everybody says they're so greedy. They did make $1 billion more than expected. Far more (unexpected/projected) than other big corps like IBM. Did they cut too deeply? Is this just a way to show their appreciation for the rank-and-file...perhaps take some of the sting out of continuous unilateral wage and benefit reductions?
Perhaps. But here's another scenario: They violated numerous gov't contracts by unlawfully increasing their profits when they cut employee wages and didn't pass the savings on to the gov't. Contracts are now being lost. In an attempt to mitigate some of the damage and salvage recompetes, they're dumping all...ALL...of the money back to the employees (esp. gov't contractors) within the same calendar year!
Have you even seen them part with so much money so quickly...given to the lowly employee?
It's working. Some lost contracts are being contested, immediately after the "bonus" announcement. (Behind closed doors, negotiators are stating in low, somber tones that there was no violation, but HP will realize no unlawful profit this calendar year for the 5% across-the-board cut in wages which affected gov't sector contracts.)
Don't for a second believe that HP wants to help or reward employees. The board/execs just don't want to lose millions and billions in lucrative contracts.
All I can see in Mark Hurd's legacy so far is a continual and uninterrupted preparedness to compromise integrity, while talking it up at the same time. What do you call that?
I think this IS designed to make employees feel a little better about HP and it was probably part of the plan all along. Unfortunately it isn't going to work; people have figured out that it's a one-time thing and yes, your base pay will still be permanently lowered by 5%.
HP's SEC 10-K filing, which will describe exec bonuses, is due next week; it might make interesting reading.
HP's image takes a hit.. very badly. No good skilled resources are joining HP. They all read about it. The seed they sow will be reaped in few months now. In India, there is going to be huge attrition. its going to be chain reaction.
You can always call me as well at (607) 729-4571
Lee Conrad
Alliance@IBM CWA
There might be some fear mongering about unions in the god ole US of A but I know they exist and where they work, they work.
You guys are definitely being systematically shafted, it should be obvious by now.
Cheers!!!
Disappointing Employees
SAVE US
Companies like HP don't hire you because of your skills, they hire you because you are cheap. The only way this has ever changed is when employees bargain as a collective. That is the only option you have if you want better conditions. It is also the thing the executives fear the most.
As Damian has oft pointed out, collective concerted action is required. When your colleagues in other countries go on strike to protest - please support them by *not* overing for them/ going the extra mile for the customer during that time. When the customers complain of the poor/lack of service then perhaps the 'business spreadsheet jockies' may take some real notice.... (I live in some hope...) If customers were to log more calls than usual and come down hard on HP for any breach of SLA (with penalty payments) - that might help too...
- So any support folks (of HP customers) who sympathise/empathise with the plight fo the beleagured IT support folks (the world over) who want to 'spit in the eye' of corporate/exec greed - your support would also be most welcome.
Significant dates appear to be 8/Dec and 10/Dec in the UK....
Good Luck...
More fool on you if you elected to take the pay cut, and if it was forced on you, then you have my sympathies.
F#*k you, Mark Hurd. I'm out of here next year and taking people with me. I will have a little bet with whoever wants it that while Mark Hurd is at the helm of HP, for however long, pay rises will be frozen.
Also, we get audited occasionally and asked if anybody else ever fills out our timecards. Well, since HP will auto-fill our timecards with vacation, I guess the shocking answer will now be "Yes."
They're going to auto-fill our timecards with vacation, which we can override with planned work time--which violates our public sector rules because we'll record it days/weeks ahead of time--or else modify the time after the fact. The timecards will be approved before we work the time. If anything changes, pay or time off, that will be realized next year.
Very neat and tidy for an org that desperately wants that end-of-year shutdown savings so the top execs can pocket $millions more. And they apparently want to know ASAP what their bonuses are going to be (why wait?) and hence the rush to prefill/approve everyone's time, incl. those who are legally forbidden to do so.
How many of those children who entered or won a prize will have unemployed parents next year ? How dare HP try and portray themselves as a company that cares.
Mark Hurd is the lowest of the low.
To top it off he goes and makes many of the highly skilled workers redundant only to have the work passed on to people like me to do at half the cost to the company, despite the fact i'm still paid £10,000 BELOW the benchmark rate for my job title! F#$k you Mark Turd.
The continuing pay freeze is disappointing but not surprising, but I wonder how much money HP has to make before pay rises are re-instated; net profits of $10bn this year and $13bn cash in the bank obviously aren't sufficient.
VPB is a joke. In the uk £100 to £200 (depending on which account) per person has been allocated to the bonus pools. Many will still not get a bonus as managers are forced to give most of the budget to those who are below their pay band.
Real meaningful bonuses are ONLY for execs at HP.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20091218/ttc-tech...
I guess those people work for even less money than the folks in India or Costa Rica. HP treats
the entire planet as their plantation
All things considered HP has had a good year and a very good Q4. Those who had the 5% cut will have it reimbursed in full, but only for this year, so it is a permanent pay cut. Pay rises are on hold yet again, but again bonuses are not. The company has backtracked on Mark Hurds comment back in Q1 that everyone will get a bonus if the company does well. Now bonuses will only be for executives, with small bonus pools for everyone else. Just ask your manager, on the HP intranet guidelines have been posted for managers on how to deal with difficult conversations around that same topic.
Lets face it everyone is in this game to make money and HP is a company with the capitalism at its core. That does not mean that lying is acceptable, even if every webcast is started with a statement that nothing said can be taken as a promise for the future.
The time to act is now, not tomorrow, next month, after Christmas or even when the economy gets better. What Mark Hurd is doing is wrong. Period.
The time to act is NOW.
My question is does anybody know if HP has a patent-pending on this new technology? Just think, if it works we can expect this to happen again as we watch our overall salary levels each year decrease and our "virtual bonuses" continue to be rewarded each year just in time for the HP holiday shopping season, so we (HP execs hope) will recycle that money right back into their BIG piggy bank. Who knows, if this works maybe HP can sell this new technology to other corporations and businesses -- HP Virtual Bonus-the new employee compensation business technology.
"David Clelland has asked me to email you to let you know that he took the opportunity to speak to Yvette Cooper about the situation regarding HP Enterprise Services. Ms Cooper assured Mr Clelland that representatives from her department were involved in ongoing discussions with union representatives.
Mr Clelland asked me to add that he hopes that the discussions prove useful."
I'm not sure if it ok to post links? This is to the PCS union latest news which should get updated in the next couple of days with what happens in the talks with HP
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/commercial_sector/eds/...
I am just sad it has to come to this
http://www.corporate-ir.net/seccapsule/seccapsu...
Page 28: Changes to our compensation and benefit programs could adversely affect our ability to attract and retain employees.
Like other companies, HP has implemented changes to its compensation programs intended to reduce fixed costs, create a high performance culture at all levels and provide an opportunity for employees to earn significant rewards if HP delivers strong financial results. These changes included reducing base pay for many employees; lowering the cap on matching contributions under the HP 401(k) Plan; making the funding of the HP 401(k) Plan matching contributions fully discretionary depending on quarterly business results; and eliminating the purchase price discount for shares purchased under the HP Share Ownership Plan, all of which were announced in February 2009. HP also has reduced the total number of share-based payment awards granted to employees and the number of employees who receive share-based payment awards. Due to these changes in our compensation programs, we may find it difficult to attract, retain and motivate employees, and any such difficulty could materially adversely affect our business. Moreover, any difficulty relating to obtaining stockholder approval of equity compensation plans could limit our ability to grant share-based payment awards to employees in the future.
Now where is the Sec-10 filing where we can read about the executive compensations? Should be out before Christmas I guess.
1.A 4+ YRS EXPERIENCED TECH CAN BE MADE TO WORK NIGHT SHIFTS FOR JUST 500$ A MONTH
2.NO LEAVES ON AMERICAN OR INDIAN HOLIDAYS(NOT EVEN INDEPENDENCE DAY OF INDIA OR VOTING)
3.WORST COMPANY INFRASTURCTURE WHERE YOU TO GET STRUGGLE FOR TOILET PAPER
4.TAKING A PISS OR VOMITTING-ONLY 15 MINUTES IS ALLOWED.
5.A LEVEL 1 TECH IS MADE TO DO THE JOB OF LEVEL2 WITHOUT BEING PROMOTED TO LEVEL 2 OR BEING PAYED THAT KIND OF SALARY.
6.EVEN IF YOU ARE SICK LIKE A DUCK ; IF YOU TAKE ONE OR MORE DAY OFF IN A MONTH THEN YOU LOSE 10% OF YOUR PEA NUT SALARY FOR THAT MONTH.
7. PERFORMANCE PARAMETERS WILL RAISE TO 20% A YEAR.
8.LAST 2 YEARS NO SALARY HIKE+5% SALARY DEDUCTION
9.DELL DID NOT PROFIT MUCH BUT GAVE 20% TO 35% TO ITS EMPLOYEES IN INDIA WHERE AS HP MADE A GREATER PROFIT BUT REDUCED THE SALARY OF ITS EMPLOYEES.
10. MY TRAINEE QUIT AND JOINED DELL AND HIS SALARY IS 2.3 TIMES MORE THAN MINE.
11.INDIANS HAVE TO SUPPORT MORE THAN ONE PRODUCT BUT GET PAYED FOR ONLY ONE.
12.INDIANS HAVE TO SUPPORT THE PRODUCTS WITHOUT ANY PROPER TRAINING ON THAT (WE HAVE NOT EVEN SEEN 90% OF THE PRODUCTS THAT WE SUPPORT)BUT USING THE MANUALS FREELY AVAILABLE IN THE WEBISTE AND IF ANY MISTAKE IS COMMITTED THEN YOU WILL BE PUNISHED WITH SALARY CUT, WARNING LETTER AND HORRIBLE SHIT.
13.***if you eat the expensive food in cafetaria then you are bound to fall sick***
LIST GOES ON AND ON.....
All this Above can be done only in india since indian politicians are paid to publicly say that "private companies (lik hp, ibm) have to cut down the salary of their employees since it is too much". they say that because they are all bribed.
we dont have any f#$%ing law for any employees in the private company.
i m working night shifts from the past 4 years...
most of seniors are working night shifts from 5 - 7 years...
where as doctors advice us not to work in night shifts for more than 6 months but we have no choice....
unless you are born in a schedulet cast or scheduled tribe (MINORITY OR LOWER CASTE) you will not get a job in government offices and even if you get it you will never get promoted....
the only way of stopping this is stop buying hp...
if somebody stops eating KFC chicken because they treat the chicken badly then why not apply the same here...dont buy hp products...
For example, in Australia you can't, in all but the most extreme cases, be sacked, at least without a long process designed to ensure your employer can't sack you on a whim. In Australia you get paid 10 sick days a year, you get four weeks paid leave, if you work public holidays you get paid penalty rates (time and a half or double time), if you work more than 8 hours a day you get paid penalty rates and overtime, and more. These are the rights that were won, and are still maintained in the face of corporations trying to wind back the rules, by collective bargaining.
Collective bargaining is your right whether your Government (who are only public servants working for you anyway) or your employer, who's biggest fear (because they are in the business of looking good for the share market which is extremely volatile and easily spooked) is that you will unite and force change, like it or not.
Companies like HP under Mark Hurd are exploiting you because they can get away with it in your country, they don't want employees to have any rights and are quite happy to move their operations to places in the world where they don't have to respect employees. The only way to stop this is to stand up as a collective and demand the same conditions world wide.
Like I said earlier, and as motivation, on top of the Australian conditions I mentioned above the Australian employee would be getting paid approximately $35,000 per annum for doing the same job as you under significantly better conditions.
Have the courage to unite.
This Indian employee's post just confirms that it's even worse than I'd feared for them.
It seems that the US employees get shafted largely because there's so little protection for employees there but they can take it so much further in India and other developing nations.
Maybe the Indian staff are actually better off in these jobs with Western Corps. than their local alternative but it's still extremely hard to see how such treatment is remotely ethical.
Here in the UK the Unions have suffered some stigma in recent decades but are starting to regroup.
With companies like HP hoovering up huge profits, paying their execs absolutely obscene bonuses then not even granting cost-of-living increases, terminating thousands of jobs and generally treating staff more like a burden than an asset, the Strikes are increasingly looking like the only option to get some reaction.
Hopefully our first strikes will be this Friday, exactly mirroring the Fujitsu staff issues and action here (pay freezes, pension cuts, mass terminations/redundancies).
I really think every single HP employee that doesn't have the word manager after their name and/or title should take a whole week off all at one time to get the message across.
But no doubt Hurd will be getting his perks.
Regards
lost@HP
Its time to stand up and say enough is enough, the voice of the work force is no longer enough to show HP how the workforce is feeling.
Published Date: 03 December 2009
WORKERS at computer giant Hewlett-Packard are to stage a 24-hour strike after voting overwhelmingly for industrial action in a dispute over pay and jobs.
The Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union said its members at the firm's enterprise services section, including those working on government IT contracts, will walk out on 10 December. It said there had been growing anger over job losses and a pay freeze since HP took over EDS in August 2008.
Up to 1,000 union members will take part in the strike, including those working on IT contracts for the Department for Work and Pensions in Newcastle upon Tyne, Washington, Preston and the Fylde Coast.
PCS general secretary Mark Serwotka said: "The ballot result illustrates the depth of anger amongst a workforce who face a second year of pay freezes."
More of this to come in 2010 if Mark Hurd doesn't leave !
I would only add that what we really need now is action in North America.
http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/22544...
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/commercial_sector/eds/...
The last thing Hurd wants is widespread industrial action - but that's the most significant tool you have.
As far as the Americans are concerned, spending your life whinging about being shafted while at the same time cowering in the fear of being branded a socialist by joining a union is not going to get you anywhere.
http://e-activist.com/ea-campaign/clientcampaig...
If you want change you have to participate and work at it. No one on a white horse is going to come in and save the day. ALL of you have to do it.
What am I doing about it? I'm now an employer, our business have been employing people doing in downturn in the economy, my commitment is not to treat our employees like Mark Hurd treats his. We're not publicly listed, but we do have share holders. As far as I'm concerned their profits come second.
"EDS mainframe goes titsup, crashes RBS cheque system
Anyone know how to fix this? Oh, we fired them"
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/17/eds_mai...
Each f$%k up must be highlighted to the media and bit by bit we will remove Hurds unfounded reputation.
You get the picture …..
My guess is that there might be a token gesture in the company performance bonus but even if there is any pay adjustments they wont make up for the cuts inflicted, especially in countries where, by global standards now, labour is still expensive.
3com gives Hurd/HP some significant advantages already as far as cost structure, and position in China is concerned. It's a smart move, just a pity that there'll be people's livelihoods at stake once again.
Over the past few years we have endured huge cuts to our take home pay....we are talking 25 - 50%. I am curious as to the impetus behind this. Perhaps the legal department feels HP is violating employee laws by requiring employees to work unpaid overtime.
In any case...some interesting new developments indeed.
Stay tuned....
Gee, rather than enhance the product, HP will allow for overtime on weekends? Quit teezing me !!
The question is why do you, or have you, succumbed to working unpaid?
"The question is why do you, or have you, succumbed to working unpaid?" .... I have managed to have any "extra" hours compensated for, but never officially. There is also a more significant reason, that I cannot post at this time .... but I will outside this Forum.
Mind you, employees are their own worst enemy for actually doing it and leting their employer get away with the precedent.
Delve into it a bit further, and look at how corporations run our governments, then as a matter of interest look at some of the definitions of Fascism - especially Mussolini's definition and the role of corporations. Then think about it some more.
http://www.diarioextra.com/2009/noviembre/28/na...
By the way, that is the most read newspaper in Costa Rica so the word is being spread and more people will think twice before joining hp
*Use google translator if you can't read spanish
Most of the people left HP and joined the competitor like EMC, CISCO,Netapp , In couple of years HP will not have any good products to servive in the market.
HP invent will become HP Services soon.
Regards
Lost@HP,
I mean, take a look at Ann Livermore's mail and one will realise that they want to motivate employees the wrong way... What are they trying to tell us? Leave HP so cheap workforce from PSG and IPG comes to support EVA's and XP's. Yeah right...
HP beats revenue expectations by $1B... only to be beat by some big companies like IBM and EMC and CISCO revenues put together...
This is really ridiculous...
In India... prices have risen by 5 times in 2 years... A pound of pulses which cost 50Cents has now gone up to $2. How am I supposed to take care of my dependants? How am I supposed to save for my future? How am I supposed to make myself a home?
Can someone put this across to Mr. Hurd and his bunch of cronies...
I don't think it would be going out on a limb to say that most of these people have seen a steady erosion of their pay and benefits under Hurd's tenure. I think this will continue until HP has bled enough talent and it starts to show up in bid loses and customer sat scores. Until then enjoy your beatings!
while Upper management enjoy huge gains in compensation.
___________________________________________________________
Purchase Price for HP’s Share Ownership Plan (SOP)
The purchase price for HP stock purchased through the last SOP offering period (May 1 - Oct. 30, 2009) was U.S. $47.46*. Shares purchased were added to your Mellon Investor Services (MIS) account on Nov. 3, 2009.
For More Information
*HP no longer offers a 15% discount on the purchase of HP shares. Shares were purchased at the closing price of HP shares on NYSE.com on October 30, 2009.
(taken from their web site on the Stock Purchase Plan)
HP faces is first UK strike. Hopefully US/Cdn employees will be inspired to do the same.
In the past EDS employees enjoyed customer holidays -- an especially big benefit for those supporting an automotive account like GM. For those at GM that has been a substantial benefit, especially for the near two weeks you'd get during the Christmas holidays. Now it looks like they want to do away with that and mandate vacation days instead.
EDS and its employees have been "throttled" since joining HP. I had to laugh in the last town hall meeting when they mentioned they needed more creativity. How's that going to happen, when you punish people financially and otherwise for their efforts. If I am going to get "smacked around" regardless of what I do, why should I give anymore than I have to. I'll do my job, but be creative at the price it has cost all of us this year..... naaahhhh I don't think so. I'll save my creativity for a company or entity that will demonstrate that it appreciates it. When my dog comes to me when I call it, I don't hit it over the nose with a rolled up newspaper, so why is HP doing that to it's employees? After a while your employees stop listening when you call for their help and effort, especially if they know another "whack on the nose" is what they can expect for it.
I wonder if HP is going to win a piece of that 6,000 company lottery? When you mentioned coding issues antigreedguy, this exerpt from the article seemed to stand out: "The exams will be deeper than typical audits, and also look at the use of independent contractors and other worker classification issues, a spokesman for the IRS said on Friday." What are the odds?
…..but Mark I thought by giving up 5% of my salary we were going to save jobs??
What a load of BS!!
I’m looking forward to the backlash when Hurd’s 09 proxy filing detailing his compensation is made public. There is so much social unrest in HP due to the gross inequities emparted on us by Hurd and it is destroying this once great company. I have no doubt this will come to bear in the market, but in the short term Hurd and his band of merry men will make out like bandits.
The pen is mightier than the sword, as evidenced here and article that, amusingly, was created on Mark Hurd's dime.
Get the thiefs and assasins on mankind's community straight to the guillotine ...
... far too good for them,
better to mark their grotesque face, then birching them out of our cities.
http://greenrankings.newsweek.com/companies/vie...
"Strong programs to reduce GHG emissions. The first major IT company to report GHG emissions associated with its supply chain. Has made an effort to remove toxic substances from its products..."
So they have programs "to reduce," they've released a report, and they have made "an effort."
It's quite obvious they rose to #1 in a very limited set, then. I see a bunch of greeny posters around the office telling you to power down stuff when you leave. I guess that's a "strong program" to reduce emissions. More than the posters I see PCs and monitors and even desk fans left on overnight, and conference room lights left on all day. I'm the weirdo for turning out the empty rooms' lights as I pass. I see several styrofoam cups (trash that lasts forever) amassing daily in individual workers' trash cans. We had yearly collections of electronic equipment for recycling which was great, but they canceled it once the economy tanked (I suspect never to return). Admittedly, people in my corner of the world probably care the least about the world, but this is evidence that HP's greenness isn't even serious enough to take regional attitudes into account.
So HP is just the best faker of a group of 500 fakers. Whoopee.
'Along with the rest of the Executive Council, I have been reviewing the feedback and comments. The results confirm that HP is strong. Our people expressed their enthusiasm for working at a company with a strong reputation, great customers and talented colleagues. The feedback also surfaced areas that need continued focus, such as driving more actionable career plans between managers and their teams.'
It is indeed complete CRAP.
Report the truth, loose your job, WTF?
And another thing. In Australia you just could not be sacked for the reason you apparently did, we have protections against Corporate assholes like Mark Hurd here. You should be demanding them too, along with universal health care.
You have to be a complete sycophant to make it to the top of one of these corporations so I guess we shouldnt be surprised when thats how they act.
We can, however, write about it, in blogs, comments and anywhere else we can, in an effort to raise awareness and eventually make them feel some pain.
Check this out The Campaign Against Mark Hurd to see what I mean. Although its a joke, I wish it werent.
http://johnqworker.tumblr.com/
Why not set up your own Google Alerts. HP, EDS, Mark Hurd, IBM, Cisco, Sun, Dell, Ross Perot, Carly Fiorina, Richard H Brown, Ron Rittenmeyer, and Michael H. Jordon are some of the alerts that I've set up.
We're redoing the EDSer since we're going to be HPlers starting November 1st. The process is taking much longer than I'd like but I'm still on the case.
John
I hope some of you can read spanish.
http://www.ameliarueda.com/nuestra-voz/2009/11/...
http://www.ameliarueda.com/nuestra-voz/2009/11/...
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/re...
Good news for those in HP eligible for stock options, Mark will create room for another 12 billion USD worth of stock options. For all others in HP not so godd news....
Each PRU represents a hypothetical share of HP stock
So I guess it will be a hypothetical reward
Still, the amount of money is substantial...I wonder how Mark will finance it....ah yes of course, save on the rank and file!
In my closing statement, I agree that this blog will not go anywhere; but HP and Mr Hurd should consider it a good thing. At least they know where we all stand.
I agree with you that this blog wont make a difference, and thanks for the compliment, but the Mark Hurd situation is just a symptom of a much darker problem.
Its seems to me that the once great USA has gone from government for the people by the people, to government for the corporation by the corporation.
I'm not sure that letting it go is a wise decision.
Anyway, all we can do is stay silent, or write. The only thing that stops you from changing things is the thought that you can't.
Ford Vs Dodge gets cited a lot but I'm not sure that the intent behind that ruling was supposed to mean at all cost and to exploit employees. There are many examples of CEO's who have managed to return sound profit to shareholders while accomplishing a satisfied workforce - maybe this is something that will occur after the globalization plateaus out, but I doubt it.
Thanks to everyone who completed the 2009 Voice of the Workforce (VoW) survey.
[we were forced to by our managers. It was not optional]
Particularly, I’d like to acknowledge our many colleagues in HP Enterprise Services who, for the first time, were part of the combined, pan-HP VoW.
[This is a combination of old HP Professional Services, that was gutted and EDS - 10% + 90%]
Together, we established a new baseline for results and provided new insights into our company.
[Same base line, just more disgruntle people answer the same questions that force an answer you have to lie about]
Overall, almost 190,000 employees or 71% of the HP workforce participated, and more than 120,000 of you provided responses to the open-ended questions.
[Well… maybe you should read them…]
Along with the rest of the Executive Council, I have been reviewing the feedback and comments. The results confirm that HP is strong.
[How in the hell do that statement even mean anything]
Our people expressed their enthusiasm for working at a company with a strong reputation, great customers and talented colleagues.
[Notice he did not say HP was that company]
The feedback also surfaced areas that need continued focus, such as driving more actionable career plans between managers and their teams.
[Considering there are not plans in place, and when a manager agrees, and it looks like you have one, you are shuffled off to another dead end position… So I do not ecpect ant action here]
In the coming weeks, we will begin sharing HP-wide results and your management team will also be reviewing results in more detail and working to establish action plans.
[AKA: We will change the results to not look as bad to all the employees… For if the information was good, we would not need the time to spin the truth]
Thanks again for all the candid feedback and suggestions.
[He did not promise to read and accept them]
Together we are helping to strengthen HP and succeed across all dimensions of our business.
Wow, what a job he is doing!!
It must be galling for Hurd to know that HP employees in the UK have done even less than him to earn £6.5m so quickly.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10390851-92.ht...
I wonder how many HP employees are going to vote for her 8^)
Seven weeks ago I was made redundant a few days before the UK onboarding and I can honestly say it was the best thing that has ever happened to me in my professional life.
I was offered a job before I'd finished working my notice with EDS and now I work for a brilliant organisation, on better money and with half of the daily commute that I used to endure.
It's a great feeling not going to work with the culture of fear, the organisational chaos and general crap that we all had to put up with since the HP takeover. I do empathise with ex-colleagues that are still there and I'd like to know what the upshot of the 5% wage heist was - bearing in mind that 90% of EDSers would have rejected this avaricious proposal - did it go through? Have the HP vultures made any more of you redundant?
Anyway, I wish all HP and EDSers the best - it's great outside, come and join us!
Great work Mark. I can't wait to see what your total compensation is for 2009.
The article says "Mark Hurd's leadership traits and abilities have been proven year after year during his extraordinary career and has been magnified nationally since being named the Chief Executive Officer of HP," AFCF Executive Director Grant Teaff said. "To put what Mark Hurd has done as a leader of HP in proper football perspective, the same performance as a football coach would have culminated in a national championship and Coach of the Year honors. The American Football Coaches Foundation unanimously and enthusiastically has selected Mark Hurd, CEO and chairman of HP, as the 2009 CEO Coach of the Year."
I just want to throw up. Anybody got a barf bag?
Why is it that Mr. Hurd would implement such large paycuts to the EDS employees when that is the company's most profitable division? Is he not concerned with losing the company's top performers since those are the most likely to leave?
Why would he cut salaries/benefits at all when the company is making 1+ billion profit per quarter?
Why would he do this when he just took a 20+ million cash bonus for 2008?
None of this makes any sense to me. Is Hurd completely shortsighted and simply trying to maximize his bonus payouts before he departs?
Maybe all of you should email the board and ask them to explain all of this since they have to approve all of this:
http://h30261.www3.hp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=71087...
They would have to listen if they got 1000+ emails (assuming they get past the secretary).
All the best.
maybe we should organise something?
my email is bomber_817@yahoo.com.au
we should start contacting each other and set something up
I would really love to put something up Hurd and livermore, and the pathetic excuses we have here in australia for managers
try contacting me and we might all se what can be done
thay have screwed us for too long and too well
Regards to all
Bomber
Follow that.
New article today from thestreets.com
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10601820/1/h-p-h...
The firm is overmanaged to hell, the section i am in has 3 managers and a team leader for 15 techs
we haven't seen a pay rise in over 5 years, here in Australia Hurd the Turd was told by all to shove his 2.5% right where the sun don't shine. If those "EXECUTIVES" all took a 90% pay cut they would still be on an obscene income. Roll on the day hp goes under!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also when the annual report comes out, be sure to look for "stock buybacks". That is money spent correcting the diluting of the stock due the exercising of stock options. Divide that by the number of people that are eligible for stock options and we will get the mean value.
i am in one of the few countries where gap (the compensation pay for your availability) was still on....not anymore.
ah surprise surprise, they just told us a few days ago gap no more since august...
then they came up with this new "compensation" scheme.
i have called the job government authorities...turns out that doing this change of the conditions in this country is actually illegal.
management told me this kind of compensation is not actually taken as part of salary...but that is not as our govenrment sees it.
i'll file a formal case with our authorities...it's not the first time hp has been made pay money to employees because of violations to the law here.
Shame I remember the days I could stand and say proud "I work for HP". now when someone ask me I just say I work for a "computers" company.
I wonder what Bill Hewlett and David Packard, would do if they suddenly rise from the dead and see what this greedy bastard has done to their dream...
How long can a CEO despised by his workforce stay in charge ?
You know that Wall Street believes every word these guys tell them, how many examples of that have we seen? Enron, Madoff etc...
There are already mutterings about HP's real strategy, why not amplify them? Imagine if there were thousands of blogs like this one making it well known that HP's so called profit is an illusion created by shafting people in a time when the honorable thing to do would be to support your country and your economy, not make it worse.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/articl...
Rather depressing. The comments re: Walmart are interesting, note that Randy Mott is originally from Walmart.
Moral is the lowest of any company I have ever seen, even as an ex peregrine employee, and when in bankruptcy (guess to my friends, they all know who I am now…. Hmmm … Oh Well)
And in my current and recent positions I can see how they are cutting corners in R&D that will have extreme customer related fallout in SW products in the very near future….
However; The bottom line is I suspect the upper management here at HP will get full bonuses this year, while all other will have another year of no bonus and no pay raises… In my case the last year I was at Peregrine was the last pay raise I received, as ever time there is an end of year review, they move me to a new manager, that has no idea of my past, and the previous manager has not released the HR record… and the most frustrating part, is that until they do I cannot comment on the reviews, until after the period is closed…. So not only am I disenfranchised, but I cannot make my voice heard..
On the VOW survey, I always add comments and ask for them to call me.. I put my full name, phone number and employee number, and I never get a response… so for my fellow HPers, don’t be afraid of it. We are being driven to participate, as your manager is rated on the % of responses by his group, and that is where the pressure is coming from; but they do go into the black whole…
All the FPR pre-defined, Who are very close to mangers they will get onsite, bonus and band change in one year.
Mangers do dirty politics t, IN HP those mangers get awards promotations every year .
Regards
Lost@HP.
My experience, having been a manager at HP for several years, is that there are no such awards or promotions, in fact, getting promoted means more stress, longer hours, no pay rise.
I concur about the promotion without increment thing. 5 years and 2 promotions later...I can still recall the pittance of the annual increment I got...it was never even 3%..usually it hovers around 1% to 1.5%
But the workload increase was natural of course.
The reality is that by the time the data is aggregated at the top it's always massaged in such a way that the executive can take some banal approach to the usual yada yada and then continue to shaft you with impunity.
Never assume that your line manager, or their manager for that matter, has any influence, they don't. Hell, country general managers are little more than ineffectual talking heads. They are actually no better off than you in this situation but are in the unenviable position of having to execute some of this stuff.
I think rather then tell them things they won't care about, just don't do the survey - that will show your opinion more than anything you can say that they will ignore anyways!!!
By the way, I just bought 3 new computers for a kids club I help at, and they all have "Dell" on them - where the ones I bought last year had a 2 letter name on them.
My prediction: there will be a mysterious 'technical fault' with the system that 'has prevented people completing VoW' and it will remain open for 7-10 days beyond the scheduled close, along with nagging emails from 'smiling Ann' et al to complete it.
Answer the survey truthfully, hopefully the result will speak for itself, but don't hold your breath.
It's so very sad that a minority can force this on a majority simply because they're in positions of power.
HP sucks!
Felix.
This quote is directly off the HP.com website under Business Ethics
So, I think that the pressure should be on to re-write the HP values, or live up to them. It's so easy to call this Guy on the rouse.
What's sad is that the majority is not standing up and being counted.
Have your say and then have a good laugh when Joe Eazor responds to the concerns raised by telling us in minute detail about how he is goingto fix a minor process problem in a minor account but fails to acknowledge, let alone address, the real issue that we have a spineless set of Execs that are too scared of Hurd to tell him that he is an autocratic, grasping, opportunist and he should go.
The job roles of President, Chairman & CEO are defined separately with good reason. No-one should be allowed to hold all three positions in a company of any size.
In no uncertain terms, I told them that they needed to stop sending jobs oversees, and to start giving a damn about their customers and employees.
http://bit.ly/NGWVl
http://bit.ly/sKpQ
on a funny note. I was in a store earlier and convinced a shopper not to buy the HP printer he had in his hands.. Dude bought a Canon after our little chat :-)
I beleive Canon makes them for HP
As for the UK & EMEA management, they need to grow a pair of balls and challenge the decisions coming out from the US. Afterall, is HP not meant to be an environment where decisions can be challenged, without fear of retribution? Yeah, right.... anyone challenging Mark Hurd would get a one way ticket to the job centre!!!
On the project that I work on NOT ONE single HP employee is happy working for the company any longer. This is across the board and at varying levels... some HP'ers who have been there for a couple of years to some who have 20+ years service. A once great company is going down the pan unchallenged, and that's a shame.
I look forward to also seeing how they plan to claw back the 5% cut which everyone in the UK got a universal thumbs down from everyone I have spoken to in the UK.
Now where is that link that Mr Hurd sent out for the Voice of the Workforce survey.........
http://www.emailthepresident.com/
Also seek out and email your political representatives to make them aware of the HP fiasco. Mark Hurd and his type must be stopped.
If you didn't take the cut you can look forward to some cut or another.. Now wasn't it stated (in print) that there would be no reprisals?
Read the offical HP memo below. Videos of EMEA coffee talks to start appearing on YouTube...
Update on the salary reduction process
First of all we want to extend our sincere thanks to all managers and employees in EMEA who agreed to accept a salary reduction. You clearly demonstrated your commitment to the company, and this is greatly appreciated and particularly important for us to have your support.
While the majority of managers consented to the program, the acceptance rate from the employee community was more varied depending on country and Business Group. We understand that this is a very difficult step to take which impacts everyone's life but we also know that the company does not expect the impact of the salary reductions on Total Rewards to be borne disproportionately by one group or one part of HP only. EMEA will have to contribute to the company's efficiency in the same way as the Americas and APJ do. We will consequently have to look into other possibilities to get our cost structure aligned.
It will be interesting to see how these 'other possibilities' are implemented. The only way which avoids problems with the 'no personal reprisals' statement is to implement changes across the board. However this will penalize further the few that said 'yes' to the cut. Maybe there have been so few acceptances that this wouldn't matter(?)
HP - powered by fear & greed
He said he used vegetables cause there is no way they can talk about money in this moment.
interesting...
To be honest I don't really give a flying .
Just endured another mind numbing coffee talk from Randy "rmott" Mott. If you're reading Randy here's what our floor think...
- we don't care about your core site policy. Check it out! We all work at home.
- we're not going to tell you the truth in VoW because we tried that once or twice and got nowhere. So guess what? Everything's cool.
- we don't give a crap about your 3 leadership attributes, most of us have no desire to turn into weasel toad senior execs. Looks like we'd have to sell our souls.
- the survey at the end of the web cast? WTF? Whatever dude!
- rotations! Big deal... Not all of us want to be all rounders.
Please do us all a favor and eff off to your next gig wherever that might be. We're pretty sure your cronies will go with you.
Finally. I heard the most ridiculous thing:
1)HP real-estate are looking to close sites/reduce office space.
2) HP IT want people IN the office
3) Some HP people will lose their permanent desks at these locations.
4) these people will become "mobile" workers.
Sounds ok so far... Until Motts HR dude explained that in HPIT "mobile" mean't you'd have to hotdesk AND that HPIT would make sure there were sufficient hot desks for HPIT workers! WTF! Why not just let them keep their desks? We don't come in to the office much anyway... Unless you and your motley crüe are in.
The amount you guys suck is unreal! Well done.
Ps. I record all of your coffee talks so I can submit them to wikileaks.
Yours,
Disgruntled
Laptops down 10%. Desktops 25%. Servers 25%. Printers 23%.
Overall, revenue was down 2%, still better than analysts expected, and profit pretty much stable at 1.6Bn - down compared to last year, but comparable to the last quarter.
Of course, the only division that made money...was the division now encompassing EDS...you know, the slackers that just got their wages slashed.
How much do we want to bet that once year-end comes, the 'numbers' just wont support any bonuses or raises.
Poor Chinese EDS now HP colleagues who graduated from top universities and joined EDS in 07/08 with (very) low salaries, are now finding themselves hoplessly stuck in a company without increase and bonus, and the attrition is now climbing at a staggering rate.
I used to complain about EDS being cruel, but now when I think back and compare that with the "HP Way" I can only say I know nothing about coporate cruelty until seeing what HP is capable of doing. And for the way HP is famous for in the region in undercutting IBM and underachieving in almost all outsourcing deals, the sad demise of EDS will only give way to IBM a even stronger position in the region. Well done HP.
Reminds me of a Canadian company whose chairman 'earned' many millions in bonuses ... by just laying off tens of thousands of staff. I couldn't help wonder how many of those staffs' salaries those millions could have paid?
I have heard they are dropping the name as sson as they can.
In the UK it may be as early as November.
It wont be long before some of us are asked to transfer to other h/w neutral companies by our customers as HP starts to lose government accounts. The question is how many lives will Mark "it's all about my bonus" Hurd destroy in the meantime?
I have to think GM and Delphi will. They have to see the mess Hurd is creating and say why should they allow HP to make more profit off them by cutting their own costs, which GM knows is also hurting them by cutting the employees morale/productivity so GM is not getting as much work out of the HP employees.
WE NEED A UNION!!!
You have to think that some of our clients will be wanting to see some of the savings that HP/EDS have been generating or they might want to look more closely at what they're really receiving for the money they're paying. Our clients should put pressure on the company to be more responsible because they have power that the company recognises. Also, if the company doesn't cooperate with its clients they won't give HP/EDS new business, renewals, nor referenability
There are some unions out there that HPers/EDSers can join. In Germany we have IGM and Ver.di. In the U.K., they have Unite and PCS. In the U.S., I would highly recommend getting in contact with the AFL-CIO about possibilities for representation. There might even be some other possibilities.
I was hoping to see more people stand up when EDS OS in Germany was on strike back in June/July. We started a website and are posting updates there. We need to let HP know that we're not going to take this crap any more. There is already a lot of stuff online that should be spread to colleagues that are fed up. There are a bunch of videos on Youtube. I've "tweeted" a bunch of things about HP/EDS. There is a Facebook group that you can join.
Be sure to let your elected officials know that you won't accept this any longer. HP has through buying EDS, large government contracts in the U.S., U.K., and Belgium that I'm aware of. With government contracts, the taxpayers should let their leaders know that the taxpayers want to see the companies that their leaders do business with shape up or don't do business with them any longer!
John Q Worker
Here is the website we started during our strike:
http://www.edsser.de
facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=914667627...
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1789816105
YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/edshponstrike
Twitter: http://twitter.com/JohnQWorker
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/johnqworker
Look for me online
Maybe it’s time for the US to relook at its employment laws – having all powerful employers and totally powerless employees isn’t healthy for an economy. Neither are overly protective laws which make companies unprofitable. I personally think we have the balance right in Australia. I read a comment that equated employee protection laws with socialism and lower standard of living - as an Australian I can say this is not true. Our employment laws seek to protect employees from abuses of power by the employer. No employer in Australia can unilaterally change your conditions of employment.
I live in beautiful country, where my health care isn't at the whim of my employer, where I manage my pension fund and where my employer (EDS) cannot simply decide that today they will pay me 47% less for the same work. Who's living in the land of the free me or you?
MciLwain, Randy (NBC Universal, KXAS)
randy.mcilwain@nbcuni.com
He wants many, many employees to speak to him! He had his story picked up in Philadephia and San Francisco! The more of you that speak out the better!!!
Over the years HP has tried to create a service division within the company. They have formed a division known as TSG, that has had limited to no success. With the decline of hardware sales, and with PC’s becoming no better than commodity goods, with little to no profit margins, HP purchased EDS to spring board them into the service market. EDS, according to a letter from the CEO Mark Hurd, was the only profitable branch within HP in the first two quarters of 2009. In response to this success, HP cuts salaries company wide, including an extra 10% cut for EDS employees for the month of April 2009. HP also promises Job code realignments to follow. This month (July) EDS employees worldwide received their new HP Job Codes and new Pay structure, also known as HP Rewards. EDS’s reward was a pay cut of 15% for the majority of the employees.
Now back to my point earlier, Insanity. HP has tried and tried to create a successful Services division but have been unable to do so. Why; because they do not believe in paying industry standard wages, to keep and retain marketable talent. In a beautiful display of “insanity” HP decimated the EDS talent pool by substantially lowering their pay, forcing employees to search for new jobs, killing productivity, destroying morale and alienating EDS. Do they expect to keep any EDS accounts long term? “By applying the same strategy over and over” do they expect a different result?
They continue to make money despite the troubled economy and continue to treat their employees like this. I agree with this fellow, it feels like a slap in the face. The majority of my EDS peers that took a pay cut during this 'alignment' took 20% or more. We are devastated by this. Some people I know are talking to attorneys.
HP wants you to quit.
I believe HP’s INVENT statement is really designed to INVENT new ways not to treat the customer facing portion of the company well, just to see where they will break.
As for me, I just turned in my notice, without a new job in sight; but my old boss is now hiring me back at 50% over my previous pay, as I was deemed “critical to the project success”. All of this with a 1 year commitment AND A PAYRAISE. So why can they pay me 50% more externally and not a 5% return of lost pay when I worked internally?
I guess Mr Hurd will have to answer that…
We were forced to outsource to organizations that know nothing about the products they support, and then when people start to understand the products and support process, they leave for a competitor (IBM / Dell / Sony) that are all in the same area foe more money, and we are restricted from matching the offers.
As for your case, I would suspect that your increased pay will be cut at any time, as they have a 30 day notice agreement in all outsourced contracts (Did I mention they also outsourced the lawyers to India?) so they can terminate them at any time. Also the bucket of money your new pay is coming out of, is not the same bucket of money that your old pay was, so they can be more liberal, as it no longer hits the same budget…
Apparently the shell game is alive and well…
I believe it just need a bit of time to think right and understand what the above statement is talking about. If one can understand that, then the one will quit and look for another better leader.
Think I am leaving soon.
-Travel is pretty much banned - to the extent that people on UK MOD work, who cannot work off customer site for security reasons, are now un-billable and benched just to save a few quid a week in expenses. Unbelievable.
-Pay Cuts
-Enforced Christmas holidays
-Contractors not getting renewed, even when revenue depends on them
-Contractors taking 10% pay cut then being told to work 4 days not 5! A 72% pay cut! to people that we need to fill skills gaps
-Now they want us to take time off unpaid
-Time & Materials work being ignored or postponed till after 31/10
-Bid work - NEXT YEAR'S PIPELINE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE - on hold to save a few quid in expenses ahead of 31/10
-Constant reminders to flog HP kit on "pull through" that are alienating our customers fast
HP just doesn't get it that EDS is a service company - we are looking forward to transferring to those companies that win our work when EDS lose re-competes. Meanwhile Senior EDS Management seem too scared to tell California to bugger off and count the profits we bring in by letting EDS run it's own business
Anyone out there still think that the bonus culture is a good thing? Anyone? It doesn't reward talent, it rewards ruthless idiocy. Turns us all into greedy, duspicable human beings. Interesting how there's two bonus schemes, VPB and PFR.
I'm shocked that I turned into something I never wanted to become... money and the safety it brings is a big incentive but the price is high. You sell out to the devil himself.
I know customers who are pretty pissed at this. Great work Mark Hurd. The clock is ticking on which customers will shift to different providers.
Mark Hurds HP does not care about keeping EDS customers.
I suppose it makes sense, to them, anyway - getting rid of people saves costs, in the short term - but I find it a strange way to run a business; until recently, I've been more then 100% utilised for years and could be again, but I'm out the door because I didn't have a chair when the music stopped.
I hope I'm wrong and customers start to leave.
Jim
They sued for a middle aged man who was let go by a company who said they couldn't afford him anymore because the had to pay their CEO - no lie- a $43M bonus!!! They kept bringing up greedy companies, etc...
http://www.edsser.de/index.html
As Italy had a strike earlier this week, I hope that they’ll keep us informed so we can include this here as well. For colleagues and former colleagues we could use your help in our fight.
Feel free to join the our Facebook group “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=914667627...
You can also look for John Q Worker at the various social network sites. Let’s all stop this insanity
Striking EDS OS employees in Germany asked President Obama for his help with HP in a petition that was delivered in front of the national German press at the American Consulate in Frankfurt.
The video is here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY91ayixvoI
Be sure to have a look at our Facebook group...
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=914667627...
Look for me at the various social media sites. Let your government know that we won't take this crap any longer!
@ http://www.youtube.com/user/edshponstrike
Some of the employees who ride motorcycles have traveled to various HP sites and created quite a buzz.
Video of visit to HP- Böblingen und Gültstein on June 17th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_45GteQm8
Video of visit to HP- Bad Homburg on June 10th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlD6P_0i9Xc
A second Video of visit to HP- Bad Homburg on June 10th
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUaQDh1ySv8
Come join our social media campaign. We’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All”
@ http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=914667627...
By the way you’re welcome to join us anonomously. We need your support.
They must be looking to see if they can identify which employee's are directly commenting on this !
The only thing you can be sure about is that where there's censorship there's someone with something they don't want the world to know.
As a UK worker who I think will see CR taking place very soon in UK offices i'm appalled that our Government who outsourced their IT systems 11 years ago is sitting back and letting this take place. Our UK office is now 40 - 50 % offshore workers brought on-shore and this % is increasing, yet very soon CR is going to happen. There was an agreement that EDS would keep a local office here and persist in employing local people. Thats obviously gone.
We the UK are going the same as the States, we have millions upon millions reliant on benefits, millions of migrant workers from other countries being paid low wages and driving down wages of UK citizens. I have no problem with a sensible controlled immigration policy, but we ain't got one, period. Whats good about having 1 million UK 18 - 25 year olds without a proper job and then letting workers in from off-shore countries.
HP \ EDS has NO proper training policy there are NO 18 - 25 yrs old people learning IT in our Office.
Most multi national companies have become strong in the West over the last 50 years built by our fathers\mothers over the decades. Now they are selling us out and using cheap labour from other countries to make their billions. This can't carry on, it isn't a plan, its selfish and greed at its worst.
While our MP's fight for their political lives and trying to excuse their own greed, 10,000's people in the UK are losing there jobs and livelihoods every week.
We need to cut out the bullshit and the dumbing down, my god where do we start?
Thanks Labour Government, oh and Ken Clarke Conservative supremo stated 1 thing they would change if they got in power next time, they would change Employment Laws - what for our benefit or more like the States!
Right excuse me, im off to do my HP Ethics mandatory course, the only training they think is important, irony at its best!!
Personally I think this attitude is flawed; Dick Brown was ousted from EDS because the company ran out of cash and he didn't have the excuse of a recession to really crap on the rank and file.
We have to keep highlighting to the media the social irresponsibility of Mark Vincent Hurd and the current board.
Here is a very sad example, whilst I do not know the detail and did not know the man in question I am certain Marks irresponsible actions played a part in the suicide of this US ex-EDS employee.
http://obit.desmondfuneralhome.com/obitdisplay....
I've left a comment on Damien's newer HP article but wanted to make sure that people at this article saw what we're doing....
I’m working at EDS Operations Solutions in Germany. Due to the planned massive job cuts (our reward for being bought by HP!)and managements’ refusal to constructively talk with the Works Council, EDSers have joined the IGM and Ver.di unions in droves and we voted almost 92% in a strike vote. We’ve had several “warning” strikes are are striking today (our 3rd strike day this week).
As part of our strike efforts, I’ve started a social media campaign, spreading the word throughout cyberspace. I’ve created a group at Facebook called “EDS Employees Say Yes To HP, But For Us All” at
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=914667627...
This is the central point where non-strike sensitive information will be posted.
I’ve created profiles on some profiles on various social media sites and they usually have a user name similar to “John Q Worker”
Facebook profile:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1789816105
Twitter profile:
http://twitter.com/JohnQWorker
Stumbleupon:
http://johnqworker.stumbleupon.com/
Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnqworker/
Feel free to friend/follow me at any of these site. Help us get the word about HP’s current tactics and join us in the social media campaign. Post things about HP on profiles, forums, and locations that get a lot of traffic. In Facebook sometime by becoming a “fan” of something or joining a group you then post things in an area where people can see it.
"We are greedy, we got drunk on the testosterone of buying EDS and it working out and we made daft and over ambitious predictions on future growth that we were never going to meet, so we want you to take a permanent pay cut to stop us looking like monkeys when the books are published".
British Airways yesterday asked staff to forego up to a month's salary. BA made a £400m loss. HP have made nearly £7Bn profit in 6 months. Kiss my ring Mr H.
Just say NO to the pay cut.
Keep up the good work Damian. I agree the goal now should be to ensure that Google searches for Mark Hurd should take the public straight to Blogs like yours.
Over ambitions predictions of growth will be realized when the market starts demanding evidence of the real things that drive it, like innovation, cool products, and a motivated workforce.
The irony is he bought EDS with cash that HP had to burn, gleaned from exploiting you all mercilessly.
Vote no.
This would be a wonderful sight for the HP rank and file ..
HP
duty of loyalty - what the hell! That clearly only goes one way and this also does not account for NZ law.
The email read something like this;
While there are some pretty common sense things that would construe a genuine conflict of interest from an employee, most of the above imply that HP think they own you. They don't.
You agreed to sell 7.5 hours a day of your time to HP in return for your salary (not your loyalty), outside of that component of your time the company has absolutely no claim over you whatsoever. For them to assume otherwise is just the kind of corporate arrogance that Mark Hurd has brought to a once great company.
Here's how it goes in his greedy little mind:
"Hmmm...let me see now, how can we "optimise our cost structure? Let me look at the Balance Sheet...I see there's a line item there for approx $140M, now what was that for? O that's right, it was mine and my five other Leaders' (Livermore, Bradley, Joshi, Mott and Lesjak) bonuses for last year. Well we deserved that for our hard work and serious risk-taking, so I won't touch that. Apart from that, I've put a nice "fence" around that so it's protected by company law. What else is there? O look, there's our "cost overheads" salaries and pension contributions amounting a bit more than my bonus ... now, if I cut their salaries (and hence pension contributions!) by 5%, then that will do it!"
Isn't this kind of reasoning tantamount to "a conflict of interest" whereby HP Leaders' continue to enjoy their excessive benefits (as an aside - how on Earth can ANYONE spend $45M in one year????) while their employees make the sacrifices on their behalf?
If Mark Hurd was REALLY concerned about cutting costs, then he should start with his own and other senior leaders' excessive benefits packages. It would be easy to do, there would be no legal implications or complex union regulations so it would be CHEAP and RISK-FREE to implement. Finally, it would be a real sign. Just to put this massive benefits package into perspective for a moment: a $140M benefits package is equal to about $500 bonus per HP employee - just think what an impact that would have if that were awarded to us hard-workers, the REAL risk-takers in HP. That would be a positive sign to all of us and a real incentive - it would show that HP actually CARED about its employees instead of treating us as "cost overheads". Mark Hurd and his fellow cronies are the biggest "cost overheads" by far so get rid of them all before they take the money and run - just like the other "Captains of Industry" are doing!
Bonus Programs? HA! Maybe for the execs, Joe Schmoes don't get bonuses. In reference to your article Mr. Ko, personally I would be happy to take a pay cut rather than see my fellow employee lose his/her job. The problem is HP is cutting jobs and pay......even worse as Damian put it so well in his original post the pay cuts are hardly "fair" across the board.
5-15% of most HP/EDS employees pay is a car payment, money towards child care, uncovered medical expenses etc. Now I don't expect Hurd to drop his salary/bonus down to 100k but if he took a REAL cut, not some bogus .36 %, maybe I wouldn't be so angry.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09...
Specially like this comment:
"A spokeswoman for HP says her company's "difficult" decision to cut pay will allow the tech giant to create more long-term value and "be in a better position to fund 2009 bonus programs."
"
I suspect we will be 'forced' (there's no other word to use) to take 8 days vacation but be expected to support the clients through the vacation.
In plain words, a working vacation.
By the way. HP are probably happy about this as it might nudge people to give their 5%. Just say No!
Zammo
How is he going to reward those people exactly? One of the things in his gift would be a bonus. However, a typical HP bonus would be less than the 5% we would lose if we agreed to the pay cut. Also, a bonus would no doubt be a 'one-off', whereas the pay cut would be more or less permanent - there's no date when the pay cut will be reversed. A bonus also wouldn't help with reduced pension contributions associated with a pay cut.
Also, accepting the pay cut may not save your job - 5,700 'roles will be impacted' (love the phrasing) in EMEA over the next two years whatever people decide regarding the pay cut, so you could accept the pay cut and be made redundant anyway.
It will be interesting to follow how HP handles the fallout from the Budzinski comments and how they handle pay cut dissenters - there certainly won't be a shortage of them.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/hp_labs...
I fail to understand Hurd's rationale here. Why research? Isn't that supposed to be fueling HP's growth idea?
Mmmmm
Labs has done some outstanding work over the years (they invented inkjets for goodness sake) but are now seen as just another cost to be cut, so HP as a whole can, in the short term, make a bit more money. Without research you cannot create the innovative products you need to stand out when times get better.
It's ripping the heart of what used to be HP and as an employee, it's painful to watch.
HP's new slogan? HP (used to) Invent...
Mark Hurd is a moron.
What is the cost savings of the forced vacation? On the surface it appears that the advantage would be in utility costs, reduced heating and electricity in wholly owned HP buildings. For others those costs are often included in the rental agreement for leased space so would not realize a savings. In my case, I work at a client site that pays for the space no savings at all.
This is not an assembly line case where the line is shut down to retool and the resources use vacation because the plant is under maintenance.
Service level agreements must still be maintained. Is this a way to get resources to support clients while on vacation? I'm more in the service arena so can't speak to hardware manufacturing. Is this the main savings? If so, why force vacation on the support staff that will realize no savings?
No savings for paying the resources? They get the same on vacation or not? Or will they?
Here is what I think HP is doing. EDS assimilated resources are on the EDS grandfathered severance package until Nov of this year. I believe HP is planning a big layoff after this expires of both EDS and HP resources. Layoffs often happen right before the holidays, everyone knows that.
By making resources work an extra 8 days that they normally would have taken off in the summer brings in 8 billable days that would otherwise have been lost. Then having the EDS severance plan expire and being assimilated into a new HP severance plan reduces severance payouts to the EDS WFR's.
So in effect Hurd is making you work 8 days in the summer to help pay for your severance in November. The current EDS policy is to not pay for any unused vacation when you are WFR'ed or quit. If this policy continues or in use by HP it is effectively 16 days less of severance, the 8 extra you brought in and the 8 they are not going to pay you.
Lars
HP has operated a December closedown for many years, mandatory where permitted. Remember that until recently HP was primarily a product manufacturing company and shutting down factories for a period of time saves money. Shutting down for two weeks saves more money, and HP (sorry, Mark Hurd) needs a best-in-class (cheapest) cost structure remember. It makes less sense for the Services business but HP tries to be consistent, hence we all get the pay and benefit cuts.
Interestingly, in the UK HP can designate up to five of your leave days, whereas in EDS there's no mechanism for designation of leave days. I understand EDS are being 'encouraged' to take the days as leave.
It's got nothing with allowing you to take some time out over the Christmas period to rest and recouperate or spend time with your family. Although it's nice to take the time off, you should, and are, entitled to take your leave when ever you wish.
A number of them seem to be coming from....NCR../ Rings a bell?
Hmm...Mark, if you WFR everybody outside of Palo Alto, the profit would increase with double or even triple digits?
It might only work one time but that's your standard business practice anyway.
HP have announced today to make redundant 700 employees in the production plant in Renfrew Scotland. The staff who are getting shafted, have worked hard over the years to make this plant as cost effective for nothing. I wonder if it is really cost effective to move the production to Poland.
As for new products, HP is turning to other vendors for them & then the control is lost- look at the VLS as an example. Then even the in-house products testing is pitifully lacking and the problems compound in the field- check out the EVA & D2D products. The EVA has gotten better after a significant amoputn ot effort to fix the problems. Wouldn't it have been easier to do more testing to identify/fix these probelms BEFORE release? As it is, now customer loyalty takes a wack because of it. Training even at upper levels is pretty much non-existant.
As an HP employee with rising costs & shrinking pay, I get very angry when I see the statistics about the pay these upper management people receive. So I got this off my chest, but I do not feel any beter- only a little more steamed.
page 133 "The HP Way" How Bill Hewlett and I built our company
1995 David Packard
Turd, you twat...has the company stopped being profitable ??? Last time I checked we're showing profit of anywhere between 1.8 to 2.9 billion per QUARTER in profits, so why are you running this company like an airline under chapter 11 ???
It's wonder they haven't told us where we can go on vacation.
IF the company is having an ENTIRE plant shutdown .......I.E. NO one is left at work as a "skeleton staff" then they can do it..........otherwise they cannot force you to take leave unless you have accrued more than 2 years worth of annual leave .... I.E. 8 weeks ......... then they can force you to take 2 weeks only.
However ....... why they would want to make me take leave, when I get a 17.5% leave loading (this means I get paid 17.5% more when I am on vacation than when I am at work)
Got to love Australian Labour laws !
I find that many are working at HP, not because they find the work to be rewarding, but because out of fear of not finding something else outside of the company. This is too bad.
HR in itself is a very interesting place. There is more and more evidence that in order to get promoted within HR, one must be loyal and compliant to Marcela. There is a lot of double talk about the need to show results but like I said, it's double talk. The ones who are getting the big opportunities are the ones who have had their heads up Marcela's behind for awhile.
Hurd will keep cutting as he has already told the market that he is just getting going. Can't wait! Bottom line is Hurd can't organically grow the business with new, innovative products if his career depended on it. So until expense management is done, he will keep going and keep receiving accolades from investors.
We have a choice. I choose happiness so will resign from HP shortly.
HP leaders sometimes ask us to think of great leaders. Hitler always comes up. Let me remind peoples that A successfull bully is not a great leader. Bill and Dave, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs might be considered great leaders, this lot in HP seem to be very good bullys and micromanagers. Leaders they are not. And for goodness sake let's stop talking about Hitler like he was a leader. He was a bully who had other bullys bully nice peoples to do nasty evil things. Sorry to draw this similarity but saying Hitler was a leader at all is part of our regimes problem.
For all the bad words peoples had about Carly, she not even come close to generating the anger people have for this lot!
Ranjeet McTavish the Kebab Man
The job cuts and the hoohaa that goes with them are actually hiding the real issue of the company not having revolutionary products or sevices. The last serious cash cows were invented decades ago, and I don't see anything new coming along with the same potential to drive the company forward. There are various little things, but nothing big AND revolutionary.
In a way, the crisis was a god-send for Hurd as it enabled him to hide his inability to grow the business behind the WW economic problems. At some point the crisis will end but hp won't be able to pick up on anything other than increased sales of PC, printers and ink as we don't have any revolutionary new products waiting in the wings.
Hurd would make a great Chief Operations Officer, driving down costs etc, but he doesn't have the vision to be a great CEO.
Last Tuesday, a week ago, Mark Hurd emailed us all trumpeting the Q2 financial results.
On the following Saturday, Ann Livermore emailed us all the TSG Q2 results.
Twenty minutes after Ann's email, Joe Eazor sent us the EDS Q2 results. This didn't amount to much more than parroting what Mark and Ann had said and putting his own empty platitudes on the end.
The following day, Sunday, I then got the EDS "Abbreviations" telling us all how well we'd done. This, again, highlighted the Q2 results as its opener.
On the Tuesday, today, I received an email from Bill Thomas, announcing the - you guessed it - Q2 results for EDS EMEA.
And finally, this evening, I received ANOTHER email from Joe Eazor, updating us all on our great success.
A quick message to the higher management. We really, really don't give a flying shit about the Q2 results. It's bad when your job quite obviously consists of painfully copying and pasting what your boss has said. It's even worse that you have to announce billions of dollars in profits - again - and at the same time make thousands redundant. We also don't give a monkey's fuck about your stupid success emails which simply clog our inboxes.
All of us on my particular account - ALL of us - will reject the pay cut. There are also murmurs now that the cut is being stretched out so that it looks like it'll take effect just when the UK economy is forecast to start rising again.
How convenient.
MH-> AL-> Region Chief
All will allude staff for their achievement, etc...and as all would say no one will get any sort of reward...
The WFR "benefits" have been gradually reduced over the last years, from 1 month pay per year of service down to 2 and now 1 week pay per year of service. If you've been tagged, don't even bother looking for a job within HP. I was recently asked to participate in interviewing people for a position (as the subject matter expert). It takes approval at Liverwurst's level to re-hire someone who's on his 5 weeks internal search, so manager's shy away from hiring anyone who is on "the list". The WFR packages since January have a clause in them, that you CAN NEVER BE REHIRED BY HP...what sense that makes, I'll leave up to you to determine, just shows you what kind of scumbags run the company these days. Have a great Memorial Day folks.
I have an awful feeling in my bones that, one day, the redundancy payouts in the UK at HP could be downgraded to the government's statutory minimum!!
He made a mistake in announcing 24,600 WFRs after the take over.
This invoked the WARN act and forced HP to do things they would otherwise not wish.
From EDS, they have learned how to do 'stealth' WFRs, 1k, 2k per month (now seems to be biweekly). These small numbers don't have to be reported and they walk people out without giving them any chance/opportunities/counseling to find new positions in/out of the orgs....
I wonder how many of the current level 4-6 managers that are uncomfortable with the current regime? I remember my country manager seeming a bit ambivalent during the "take out cost" period in the latter part of 2007. At that was just a summer breeze compared to the current crap coming out of Palo Alto.
But just as greed is Marks driving force it will also be his downfall. The question is just how many lives will he destroy before then and how badly damaged will the company be by then?
So let your voice be heard on the 'net. I may have left already but I'm still on your side!
Ironically even if economy recovers, HP do not have any plan to restore back the 5% base salary which HP cut from employees. I have no doubt that many unhappy workers are polishing their resume and looking for the best opportunity to leave the company. It will be very interesting to see when economy further recovers, the employee attrition rate will be like watching people rushing out of a building on fire!
Somebody should send that to the Alliance. I doubt if that is legal.
I urge all those in HP/EDS UK to now join a union. Gone are the days when compensation in EDS was administered fairly and we could trust the executives above us to act in a fair and respectful way towards rank and file employees.
The ONLY way forward now is collective bargaining or Mark Hurd will carry on eroding our pay and pensions until he is literally taking the shirts from our backs.
Just think what could be achieved if everyone in EDS went on strike for 48 hours.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
I am from India and was laid off about a year back from HP. I was in a department which was clueless as to what its role was to begin with. However, every one in the team had to excel in whatever was the flavor of the day to be out of DirtyMark's view finder. In this background, everything was going well work performancewise. The trouble began the day I was asked to speak to the HR bigwig at my location and request a more challenging role. The HR bigwig at my place seemed to be a shady guy. I wasn't exactly sure then as to whose side he was on. I was given about a month to explore various options on the HP online portal. Meanwhile my responsibilities were gradually shifted on to another bloke who was earning less than me. After about a month, the HR bigwig and some of my seniors started having motivation sessions (read dirty firing techniques) for me. The would, in the guise of helping me do a SWOT analysis to find the right role / dream job, demotivate me to such an extent that it started getting in to me. Some of these demotivating sessions would touch upon extremely personal topics like my spending habits or my hunger for management education. These sessions would alternate with some personal feel good meetings where in the seniors or the HR Bigwig would talk about the downturn of the economy, Mark's blasted plan, how to get ahead in life, fate, their experience with personal setbacks, how this event would add more fire in my career, or just the way of life. This took a toll on my health and I started losing sleep, motivation and courage, literally. When it became amply clear that I wouldn't get another role within HP anytime soon, it was put across to me that it was time for me to look for a role outside the organization, and that HP was being mighty generous in giving me some advance notice of 15 days on that. As my darned luck would have it, I couldn't get one. The motivating sessions continued. Next, I was told that even HP needed to have an end date that I would have to honor. I was given another 15 days even then was made to take the darned online ethics course. Same result. On the D-day, I had to leave HP.
I am not the only one wronged by HP here in India, there were / are many more. It is just that they are having a few confused feelings - guilt, shame, hence not getting out of the closet, or they are more mature than me it that they would like to forget the past and focus on the future instead.
My two years of stint at HP had kind of conditioned my senses. I could'nt help but feel that I have lost some thing big - a big opportunity. Thankfully, I got a job in about a month, I came back to my senses in about 6 months. Had a tough time tough to unlearn whatever was drilled into me during the motivation sessions. The work is challenging and I have my room for creativity. I know what I am supposed to do, and I am consistently measured ONLY on those goals. Most importantly, I feel that my contributions are valued and wanted.
Though it has been an year now, I cannot help but feel like a vietnam veteran. Did I deserve this? Should I not do something about the vipers that caused me misery for some part of my life. Your blogs and the comments of fellow HP'ers is in line with what I am thinking and now I do not feel that I am the only one who feels that way.
I strongly feel something has to be done to curb this menace. Be it using Web 2.0 technologies or Unions or an amalgamation of both. It is not just about money, Mark Turd and his team and his extended cronies around the world are ending up ruining families. My another concern is that these venomous vipers will eventually move on to other organizations and spread the cancer. I would be damned if I did not try anything to stop this spread.
Lessons learnt:
1) Just because a company has a mandatory online course on ethics doesn't mean, the guyz at the top follow that. Ditto with laws of the land..whichever land.
2) In any organization, if you sense your fellow team mates being extremely guarded to the point of not transferring skills that might in turn cost them their job, start looking outside.
3) The HR is not your agony aunt. He is there to save money for Mark by firing you by hook or crook.
4) Just because you did the best job, you may not get a "K", however, you might get a "boot".
5) Managing an organization is NOT rocket science. Get your basics right first - listen to your employees and focus on your customers. I have no clue what Mark Hurd is doing.
6) Business magazines, newspapers and journals are becoming a joke now - with'em praising the 20% salary cut bullshit. Do those morons know who Aziz Premji from India is? Rely on real time sources like blogs & twitters.
7) Especially, don't rely on help articles in those magazines on receiving pink slips. Those who advise haven't got a pink slip in their lives. Their advise is like a virgin advising on right way to indulge in sex.
8) Yes, outsourcing happens. But we end up working for the devil NOT God, you see. Hence what bad happens to you, also happens to us...eventually.
9) It amazes me as to how I was not aware about my rights as an HP employee. But as can be seen in other comments, it is a catch 22 situation. However, there are limitations as to what you can or cannot do as part of the system. Once outside the system, your statements lack credibility. Web 2.0 medium should help in promoting awareness of an employee's rights and should act as a forum when these wrongs are bought to the notice of the world.
10) Look beyond the brand names. Yeah, HP is big. So is Google. But in this exciting world new ones are coming up. Don't become so obsessed with HP that you turn a blind eye to newer better opportunities. I hear even the veteran lawyers at HP are getting into Big Apple's team. Have you heard of WolframAlfa? Get over HP. Better still, for a change, give HP the boot. Say Adios Fuckers to Mark and his Cronies.
Best Wishes,
Count of Monte Cristo
Damian, I am sure, is pain/needle in Turd's you know where. I think this could be the next needle.
If everyone here could come with needles like these, Turd and his cronies will eventually have a way to use those 42 million dollars in their lifetime.
I was surprised that there were not many blogs on this issue. I am new at this sort of thing and hence, not sure how long my enthusiasm would last though. If this attracts a following, I might complete the whole story.
Regards,
Count of Monte Cristo AKA DragonSlayer
Well said Count and lets hope some of your peers get the strength to speak up.
My advice would be to take the WFR and run away from HP as fast as you can. Fortunately / unfortunately, HP is well regarded in the market place so having it on your resume will reflect well (little do they know). Second, getting laid off is now a dime in a dozen so your future employer wouldn't blink twice to see that you got laid off. Lastly, if you live in the US, you can qualify for unemployment. Hey, you've been paying taxes, so leverage the benefit.
Have been gone 10 weeks couldn't be happier.
One very obvious practice is that some management mandates individuals to submit detailed weekly report to managers. If you don't write your report well, they can use this report against you, finding excuses that you did not meet the job expectation and fire you. Those greedy unethical corporate b*stards are crossing the lines!
I wonder how he get to sleep peacefully every night without feeling any guilty, how many job he slashes since he onboard HP and how much suffering the workers and their family who lost the job and still need to pay for bills.
Consider people like me who never ever post a single comment to any blog before, now I have already posted 3 comments to this blog alone because this is a great place to read and share some insights.
Damian, good job done.
The question is are they working hard as they used to be? Are they making a difference at the customers or they just do it for the sake of completing a job and nothing more than that.
In time HP services will be just like any other company without that difference and customers will look for another vendor or squeeze the price out of HP as it does not offer anything better than its competitors. Most of the execs will retire soon anyway or leave for other companies when the picking is not that good at HP anymore.
After Taking 7 AL (leaves) from the HP Emp as Mandatory) HP saved good amount of money, Now he is planning to remove 2 % HP Work Force.
what will be MARK next plan if the same thing continues in Q3 and Q4 ?
Regard's
Lost@HP
Hurd announced the Q2 results: Year-over-year, non-GAAP operating profit was up 1% to $2.8 billion
Hurd told us that great companies and great people differentiate themselves in times like these. And that he want to personally thank all of us for doing that hard work for HP.
At the same time we could read in the press that he will lay off 2% more employees, which is ~ 6400 of us ww.
Burn in your mind in a time of billions of profit for HP: 24000 + 6400 people fired + 5% pay cut + other compensation & benefits cuts
Feel free to call me:
Lee Conrad (607)7294571
or email ibmunionalliance@gmail.com
www.allianceibm.org
Names will be held in confidence.
There is a lot we can do but it takes you to step forward.
Unite in the UK should be getting a flood of people to join up - pass it on. Anyone know if Ireland has a union that would be comparable?
My opinion, and this article, won't change anything per se. Creating an employee alliance will, or should with enough numbers. Remember we are demanding ethics and balance from these executives, they will only really respond to sledgehammer democracy and you need to have clout to do that. Clout that comes from numbers that is.
I'd suggest sign up, otherwise your opinion will be just that.
I am at EDS Germany since over 20 years now and never thought about joining a union before. But since last year I have learned one thing: The only way to counter act people like Hurd and their methods is strengthening the unions and fight for your rights. At EDS in Germany we are doing this since December 2008. In January 2008 less than 5% of the german EDS employees were member of a union. Because the wage negotiations for 2008 failed, many joined the unions (IG Metall and ver.di). When the HP/EDS merge was announced a second wave joined and when the numbers for the WFR were announced (1150 of 4200 in EDS-Germany; therefrom 840 alone from 2300 in EDS OS, more than 30%) a third wave of colleagues joined. In December the unions were strong enough to demand negotiations about:
1. A social collective agreement, including securing the future of existing sites
2. A collective agreement to secure existing working conditions
3. A pay increase for 2009
Until today we have had four warning strikes, including a visit of 700 EDSers (from southern locations) in Boeblingen (HP german headquarter); 500 EDSers (northern locations) in Ratingen on the same day and a demonstration (together with AVAYA-Employees who are also fighting against a WFR) with a flash mob at the CEBIT in Hannover
pictures: http://www.eds.dgb.de/bildergalerien/20090304_H...
news-video (in german): http://www.hr-online.de/website/fernsehen/sendu...
All our demonstrations and warning strikes were almost ignored by the management, they still deny negotiations with the unions. But we are not giving up. There are signs they get nervous. There is no official number of how many german EDSers are unionized, but unions say it is well above 50% (I would say its more than 70%, but thats speculation) and good enough to take the next step. We have tried everything to avoid an escalation of this conflict, but now there is no other choice left: next week May 26th we will start a strike ballot. At least 75% of the union-members of EDS in Germany have to vote with "Yes" to legitimate a full strike. We hope to get a result over 90%. Hopefully a good result will impress the management and drive them into serious negotiations. It would be the best for everyone, the company, the employees and especially our customers. If EDS is still not willing to negotiate...we will go on a full strike at EDS OS in Germany. Even if we lose this and even if I lose my job as one of 1150 (Or 1700 adding the 550 german HPers that have to go), I still can look in the mirror and say "you have done what you could, you have tried everything". Its a question of self-respect...a question of dignity too...I will not just surrender to fate...I will try to change it to a better.
Just complaining in a BLOG will not change anything. Don't get me wrong, to state your thoughts and feelings about this situation is a good thing because it shows that there is a global anger about Hurds moves, BUT you also have to DO something. Organize yourself in unions, take action. Make this WFR expensive for HP/EDS. Maybe then the guys at the top will start to think.
So, to all you HP/EDSers out there, if you want to do something against the methods of Mark Hurd and his friends join a union, start your own fight or support us in ours if possible.
www.uniglobalunion.org/Blogs/UNI_HP_EDS.nsf
Thanks for your attention and time.
If we're all in this together when will we have one bonus scheme? One bonus scheme that doesn't pay out millions to execs while paying little to nothing or nothing for the plebes? When will that be?
It's rich saying that we are all in this together when clearly we are not.
Us plebes rely on our base salary to put food on the table. Why don't you lay off that and cut the bonus this year. The bonus that most of us wont see anyway. While you're at it why not arrive at one bonus scheme?!? That should say a few more $. Is it because you know VPB sucks?!?!?
I hope your bullying tactics bite you in the ass.
EMEA employees should see this as a green light to say No!
Thank you.
How can that be when 6 executives at the top of the HP food chain accounted for more than 142 million in salary in F'08.
The hypocrisy astounds me.
SAD
Sure enough, no single job is perfect. But when I come back to read this blog again, I feel that my decision to leave HP was sound and valid.
I've seen Gary speak during a coffee talk in Singapore, sounded like quite an ok guy. Didn't expect him to publicly voice out his witch hunt plans for the daring folks to said NO to pay cut.
I joined Compaq in '99 just after the acquisition of DEC. Since we were hoovered up by Carly (it definitely didn't feel like a "merger" from the Red Side!); morale, career development, payrises and rewards to name a few have eroded.
During "The Carly Years", in our Managed Services department (under Ann Livermore) we were regularly told there was no money for training. Employees would only go onto external training courses if there was a gaping hole in knowledge AND it was a customer requirement. Employees don't have careers at HP, they have jobs.
Steve Gill (UK&I manager) has already said that "if you want a payrise, then leave. Under Mark Hurd we have a variable performance bonus culture.". As many HP past-and-present folks will know, this "bonus payout" is random and depends on so many variables lining up .... many of which you don't have control over.
If you want the chance of a good bonus, then you need to attain the top "K" rating in the annual review. However, your line-manager is only allowed to give out a certain percentage of K's. If everyone in his or her team has an absolutely outstanding performance in that year, then that manager has to somehow differentiate between God-like and superhuman.
E-awards for great work have been ditched. If you do a great piece of work, then you get a "well done!", there is no other reward or recognition. Even long-term service awards are now just E-award points and no longer a browse through a gift catalogue for a clock or watch or engraved letter-opener ....
During the boom years, I had one payrise and this was just above the rate of inflation. In 2007, I received my first ever "K" rating for my annual review in December and I worked bloody hard to get it. I was thrilled-to-bits .... but there was no payrise and because HP Services had only made 400 trillion dollars a minute, the bonus payout was negligible.
I am saying "no" to the paycut. I have read about threats and underhand tactics, but I am saying "no" and sticking to "no" whilst also actively looking for alternative employment.
To all those who have left to forge new careers or have started out on their own, I wish you the very best of luck and good wishes in your ventures.
To those, like me, who remain at HP; stick to your guns and reject the paycuts. Fair enough, if our economies were in deflation AND we'd received acceptable year-on-year payrises during the boom years, then I might find it acceptable to take a paycut. But we didn't .... or at least I didn't and many who have commented here didn't either.
Keep up the great work, Damian!
http://community.investopedia.com/news/IA/2009/...
Here's a brief exerpt from the article"
"Hewlett-Packard slides in at 14th on the list of great American cash-cows with a significant $11.255 billion in cash. The computer and printer giant recently considered purchasing Sun Microsystems (Nasdaq:JAVA), maker of the Java technology platform, but backed out of the deal when its terms couldn’t be met. The company is allegedly still on the hunt for an appropriate acquisition, and in the meantime, its shares have risen nearly 40% in less than two months. The stock trades for a mere 10.93 multiple of last year’s earnings and pays a nominal 0.91% dividend."
Unfortunately the video was removed recently. Video title is "Hilter got WFR'ed from HP"
Video created by user saint77, this is the link (but now video is removed for unknown reason, I guest HP is extremely upset with this video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqi-b9DScLM
Story line: Hitler sits in a room full of generals standing in front of his desk. One general, pointing at the map, updated hitler details of Mark Hurd excercising company wide pay cut, and another round of wfr is also coming. Hitler said his job is still safe (in a denial state), but general told him that he is in the wfr name list. In disbelief, Hitler take out his spectackle with a shaking hand, then ordered those of Mark Hurd supporter to leave the room. After the door closed, with few left, he start to shout and curse and swear and complain about Mark Hurd and etc etc... By then, many officers standing outside hitler room heard his shouts from the room. One female officer cried, her colleague told her, "dont worry, we still have our job"... (and the video continues...) This video is really fun to watch.
Since the video is removed (sad), you can view another version of how people use the same hitler video to make fun of bill gate of Microsoft. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gm2AojOHDw
I hope someone can revive the video and make it availale in the internet again so that it give some kick ass entertainment value to everyone.
I posted on this blog a few months ago and feel the need to post again. Gary Budzinski is the Hewlett Packard VP of the TSG group and he's an amazing guy too.
On my previous post I highlighted how people who were encouraged to take a HP sponsored higher colege degree a few years ago by the HP management, and despite the signature of the "contract" and the financial approval and release, halfway through the college course (in the best of economic times: this was in the year 2007 not now) HP decided to stop reimbursing the agreed fees despite having signed the paper committing to the full financial release for the entire length of the course, leaving the employee with the option to cover the cost himself or pull out half way through. This in Europe is illegal, it is a breach of a contract when no other clauses saying that a party can pull out of the agreement any time, are included. Completely unlawful. Gary knew it, but apparently he was the mastermind for this illegal "cost saving exercise" and directed the lower management team to refuse refunding all subsequent claim requests even if they were budgeted and approved already.
Gary is anyway a tough guy and a tough HP manager and he's above the law: he reinstated this only 3 days ago. He just announced publicly in front of thousands and thousands of employees last 12 May, that HP will find out who will refuse to take the pay cut and act consequently in the next performance review of each employee. Now this is a breach of about 31 to 35 EU privacy and confidentiality directives and laws, but apparently Gary does not care about it. All local HP Human Resources groups were very careful to make sure that they would announce the news but act in respect of the local law when communicating the facts about the pay cut, but here he comes Mr. Gary Budzinsky in a 30 seconds speech addressed to thousands of people he just candidly says that he doesn't not care about the law, overriding all the work of HR in the last few months.
There was a upsurging over the last few days about his talk in various parts of Europe.
If you are still a HP employee , have a look at the recorded session
http://media.hp.com/program.aspx?key=051209HPTS
Go to the last part QA session and listen to it with your ears: in the second part when he talk about the labor law, before the talk is eventually removed from the site
Hopefully someone will post it to youtube soon
Watch the excerpt: in the second half of the QA session.
Gary says that we are in this (the pay cut) all together and HP cannot afford to have class A citizens and class B citizens: everyone must take a pay cut....but wait a minute.... what about the illegal refusal to refund the education fees as described above and all the other benefit cuts? Was it Ok back then to have class A citizens (the top management reaping millions) and the class B citizens, the bee workers being misleadingly, illegally and senselessly cut in some case against the law as explained? We are "in together" only when the result of the action benefits Gary ,Mark and their cronies, no other times.
You can see by yourself. In his speech Gary starts with a epic sentence, like the best of all the leaders, you would think he's John Kennedy:
"...Let me say one thing: History repeats itself",
but Gary probably does not realize that indeed history repeats itself: in fact he's of the right age to remember Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling in 2001: wall street corporate gangsters sentenced to 25 years + in jail. Only a few months ago indeed history repeated itself after only 9 years: with Madoff as the new wall street gangster this time. Will Gary and Mark with all their cronies be writing history's next chapter? They are on the right path to do so.
Some one must have remind him about SBC....
I wonder...... if there's smoke there's fire somewhere and its coming from the top!
Gary B - "We can't have Class A and B citizens" thats rich coming from 8 Execs that pocketed 142 Million $ between them last year.
I Looked at the Gary Buttinski video and was appalled.
I escalated my concern to HR locally.
They could not find the offensive section.
I checked it again ............. MY ACCESS HAS BEEN REVOKED
I went back to HR ... they still have access to the video
BUT IT HAS BEEN EDITED ...... the Q&A section where smug, smartarsed boy proclaimed his illegal witch hunt ........... HAS BEEN removed.
Some may say that he has been warned about breaking the law ........MY OPINION ......... he was warned allright........warned for letting the cat out of the bag.
I think what we are seeing here is a legal version of Enron.
I also recall that comment on the folks that refused to take the pay cut. It's time for people to start lawyering up.
http://www.issg.net/pdf/InsideOutsourcing_v3i2_...
Those are the kinds of people running the company today.
We could have hired a monkey to do his job...for a lot less.
I saw the video this morning but, seen that, I must say that it's widely accepted among most employees that Gary Budzinski wouldn't be the brightest head in the HP realm. His bullying techniques are more likely to damage himself in the long run, than scare the employees to take the action that he's trying to force (illegaly) upon them.
As we say in Ireland, he wouldn't be the sharpest item in the toolbox.
I'm sure Mark Hurd has already scolded him for being so naive, and for saying such things that should not be said in public, like a father would to a 6 years old son.
I think it's time I pickup the bit of self-respect I have and make the move.
There is no limit to the current insanity going on at HP right now. Everybody is worried at the next inevitable round of cuts to be announced at the end of the week at 5pm after the next earnings announcement shows that the company has again made well over a billion and a half dollars [or whatever we'll make] in profit in the last 12 difficult economic weeks.
Emotion is uncontrolled, and everyone is sad. I think it was the worst weekend ever for them.
I thought if they say YES to 5% cut, their job will be spared ??? Obviously it is not the case....
Today I learn that my department admin staff who is on contract basis, the contract is terminated. Last working day is next week. The other admin staff of other IT department also not spared, last day is end of the month.
Needless to say, I am sure they are not going to meet the customer's service level. Imagine the customer is not going to be pleased for extended down time, when an experienced hand could fixed the problem within the hour.
Things are developing in a very interesting way now.
The problem here is that the newbie is taking over the same role and responsibility from the experienced people who left.
One major downsize is that they often screws up (sometimes screws up big), once they screw up, it may take many man hours for many other people to clean up the mess! (really, I witness that happening several times already)
This is a classic example of the advantage you provide him when you succumb to fear - the fear that voting no would cost you your job - you should always vote with your heart, for what you believe is right, not letting your fear get the better of you.
Easy for me I guess, I'm an ex employee already, but I stopped fearing being WFR'd long before it finally happened, and when it did I was so pleased to see the back of that place and walk straight into a career I created while I was there.
My advice to anyone is plan your life outside HP, make your plan so realistic that you are busting to get out of there, then operate fearlessly until you leave.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=590503538...
Of course, joining here in the US would probably be like writing your own pink slip, but it's good to see there are still countries where you can take action like this.
1. Virtually all the old EDS senior managers have been replaced by HP people - there only seems to be Bill Thomas left and I have a feeling his card is marked. Now I'm not saying that HP leaders will be any worse than EDS leaders at that level but it leads to my second point.
I have heard a quote from Mark Hurd that having less people doesn't mean a lowering of client service and to a point he may be correct, but the numbers that are leaving my account (no 1 Govt account) is being noticed by our client and they are not happy - the ironic thing is many of the contracts come up for renewal next near and I think we will lose many of them because of these actions.
2. The problem is Mark Hurd and most (not all) of HP senior management are "box-shifters" and if someone ain't around to shift a box it hardly gets noticed. If someone ain't around to answer a client call ... well you guess what happens .... oh and by the way Mr Client I can't come and meet with you to explain why no-one answered your call because it's not a sales call and you won't pay my expenses. EVERY CLIENT CALL IS A SALES CALL ... that's what these guys just don't get.
A sensible rule you might think except that EDS rarely opted for HP hardware when an independent company - why do you think that is - two reasons - nearly always more expensive and even worse a longer lead time to delivery (I can't comment on reliability).
Now our customer may be Civil Servants but even they ain't that dumb. They say to us hey - how come we have to wait longer and pay more for our hardware?
Still no worries it's only the taxpayer picking up the bill - I am glad I don't work on one of the Private Sector accounts - boy they must be hopping.
Guess what - we are not allowed to say the reason is that we can only purchase from HP. In other words we are asked to lie to our customer. Many of us have long term trusting relationsships built up over many years (hell many of us actually transitioned over from the client). All this trust is being lost in the name of the short-term numbers game.
Again a short-term jump in numbers for a possible loss of a £1 BILLION (yes - that's right) contract because our service levels drop.
Regarding the customers:
We have a services VP who begins his ridiculous presentations by taking an long and over exaggerated sip of Coke.
Then he proceeds to tell us that he has been drinking coke since he was 10. He said its always been the same (It's not) and that it is alwasy the same no matter where in the world he goes (It's not). The point of this ridiculous demonstration is that he feels the HP experience should be the same everywhere. The same model fits everywhere. The same services should fit everywhere. They don't. Customers are different.
HP doesn't give a rat's ass about the customers. We have a bunch of PMP certified MBAs that think up new processes to allow cost cutting. We have inferior technical staff all over the globe pissing customers off. Then we have highly paid escalation managers to cover shit up and promise the customer this will never happen again.
I would like to see a real spreadsheet that shows how much offshoring saves, then how much its ramifications cost. Stupid F'n Wall Street doesn't seem to want to see the latter.
So the customers, of which many are really hurting (unlike hp), will be shelling out the same amount of money, or more, for even worse service. You can't make this stuff up.
Wall Street seems to react badly when jobs are lost, but HP is encouraged by them to layoff, thus fueling the recession. How does that help Hurds "The Shareholders".
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/technology/co...
Mr. Hurd, however, contends that internal surveys provide a more accurate view of the company than scattered anecdotes and reveal a satisfied work force. The company’s strong, consistent financial performance has restored its luster as a Silicon Valley icon and imbued employees with pride, he says.
What planet is this guy on!!!
Secondly, what about a Union, can we not start a petition to bring in a Union to support us?
Remember if you stick to publicly available fact, don't contravene company confidentiality policy, and don't defame anyone, you have an absolute right to freedom of speech (or in the good old USA I think you still do - but that's another issue).
I believe that CEO's like Mark Hurd are a product of a bygone era and need to feel the pain of "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". We are bright and intelligent people with smart and well formed opinions, we too can influence shareholders and analysts - they read twitter and blogs too - and now have a very powerful and fast medium in which to express ourselves intelligently. I suggest you do that.
The question I have going around in my mind is; if it's supposed to be legislated that a CEO of a public company like HP has to act exclusively and solely in the interests of shareholders return on investment, was the intent behind that legislation ever that this would come through the systematic exploitation of the employees? I personally don't think so.
I have been an anti-union person since leaving college; I have forged a successful career in the technical sphere and have spent the last 10 years in management. That said, my feelings on unions have become ambivalent in the past 6 months. this blatent piggery is making me wonder which is the lesser of the evils. On the one extreme is horrific corporate greed, and the other are often (sorry) ignorant thugs who go way too far with their anti-management agenda. I think we need a professional and management union, perhaps affiliated to the general one but hopefully providing a moderating influence to spancel the thuggery that can ensue from organised labour. Just a thought.
It is the one the Alliance@IBM is affiliated with.
So, I'm going full speed on my home business 100% now and things are looking good. How did I have time for HP before?
I can't believe the nerve of this company requiring forced relocs, esp when they don't even begin the cover the expense involved. Unless of course you are Hurd or Mott, raking in the millions - those guys they help out.
:-) great idea and good on you for walking out! Good luck.
Good on you, and good luck with your home business.
I left this web address in the comments section on loudobbs.com Hopefully we will see some comment on HP on national TV in the near future.
Within one day of that conference call, the truth behind his statements were known. The "business rationale" (the Leader's own phrase) given was that the economic downturn meant that a freeze on all salaries, promotions, training and bonuses was necessary. When I asked the question about whether the HP Corporate Bonus package was frozen, I received conflicting answers from two sources. I take this as a "no" and predict that, later on this year, Hurd and his fellow crooks will receive massive corporate bonuses, funded by the pay cuts that we have taken and the "headcount" reductions.
Having announced that compulsory pay cuts would be introduced (where allowed), within 3 months we received an announcement that there will be more compulsory redundancies later this year. So, all you poor employees who accepted a pay cut (where this was an option), how do you feel about that? Your pay cut will be used for what purpose? Hmmm....let me guess....
In spite of my questions to the Leaders, the Works Council, our internal Communications and HR, I have had no reply to the question about whether there will or will not be redundancies later this year as well as the pay cuts. When the redundancies are enforced later this year, then it will mean that Hurd has deceived 300,000 staff at the start of the year and conned some employees into accepting a pay cut. It amazes me that someone in his position is prepared to actually LIE to his staff in order to increase his own wealth. The Corporate Spiv strikes again!
My belief is that Hurd is, based on the facts above, and the facts presented in other messages in this thread, a crook. He should be recognised for being just that. His role as a CEO is to act in the interests of stockholders (the owners of the company), the clients and employees, not in his own personal interests. It is clear that his actions are intended to increase his (and his fellow crooks on the Board) personal wealth. How on Earth can he justify personal use of a private jet and $30M+ bonuses to reduce operational costs? At the same time he is doing this, we can not even travel to other sites or to visit clients without approval from "on high". He is crippling the company, reaping in the rewards for himself, destroying the morale of the staff. He is systematically plundering the company for its profits for his own personal gain.
To add insult to injury, we still receive frequent reminders from our "leaders" to complete our Ethics training self-certification course. I would suggest that this is a good place to start: no-one in EDS/HP should complete this training so the company then can not claim that it is "ethical" in its behaviour. A small step I know but one that may have an impact. I refuse to complete the training on the basis that I do not, for one second, believe that HP's leaders are ethical.
If I were a stockholder in HP, I would demand his removal from his position on the grounds of criminal negligence and unethical behaviour and for putting his personal interests before the Corporation's.
Mark Hurd has lied about his 20% pay cut, he lied about the pay cuts saving jobs. It's ironic to me that when times were good he was still finding reasons to cut people, salaries, and benefits.
The question I have is; during Mark Hurd's tenure so far what has HP done to really differentiate itself in the market other than to acquire and devour it's competitors?
expense" of paying you what they said they would. I don't trust HP upper management. Sad to say after 28 years with this company (I'm from pre-merger HP lineage). Pay cuts no raises in 5 years performance metrics that are forever changing. I actually was told that I will NEVER see another raise in my position because I'm topped out. That really gives me an incentive to go the extra mile, to work late start early. And now I've put 40% of my salary at risk because it has been decreed that all HP employees should/will have have some component of their compensation at risk. HP has definitely morphed into a Churn and burn outfit.
As you can see, HP is still providing the service...only it doesnt care if it is delivered fine or if things could be enhanced. Pretty competitive huh.
So the so called muscle is being kept, as Hurd said. Only that the skin and veins and other organs are being slashed away.
I guess top executives didnt meet their goal for yes/no answers in Singapore, Phillipines and other countries, and had to achieve "balance" some other way
Having worked closely with HP for many years I was oblivious to the many problems the company has internally, broken internal systems, i.e., order management, B2B sites and above all the commissions system that every sales person hates, the dreaded " OMEGA ".
I have witnessed customers not being able to enter orders for days, and having the problem for years over and over again always with the same answer, our SKU's changed and we are working on it, Randy, open your eyes dude, while touting your incredible IT Transformation Story to the world you are experiencing incredible problems in your own backyard. When a client cant give you a PO for an order because they cant enter it, that's a problem. When you cant determine whether you are paying commissioned workers properly, thats a problem. When you cant pay them on time, thats a problem and probably a legal one at that.
Mark, where's your heart, did you eat it, you animal? While you seem to be a ruthless CEO on Wall Street your people are not on board with all that you represent, be fair to your people and they will produce for you, be ruthless and they will give you far less then 100 percent, its a fact, there is no denying it. People that are treated fairly will always go the extra mile for their company, they will be loyal and they will be happy. Yours are not that happy right now, while they are happy to be employed I wonder how truly hard working they are all the time. Are they always speaking highly of you and your company, I wonder. Are they just hanging in there until the job market turns around and then they get their raise back by jumping to a competitor, I wonder. These are the things and thoughts that your actions provoke.
Wives cant drive the company car anymore, no internet, no office phone while we carve out an office at our home to support you and the company, pay cuts, loss of benefits, job uncertainty while we make billions of dollars, stock purchase cuts, 401K cuts. I wonder if the troops will hang in there when the market changes or not, what do you think?
Thye best way to increase a salary is move on to a new company when the market turns around, our 5 percent is gone as well as the benefits mentioned above. Our leaders both in companies and governmental have chosen this time to take advantage of the situation and serve their own agenda's, shame on them.
All the WFR does for the company is drive out people that understand the HP way, have familiarzation with the products abnd processes and institutional knowledge, you cant replace that overnight, nor in a year, so eventually it catches up with you and the level of service declines and customers make decisions based on that.
Sales Operations is a joke, they continue to throw new processes and useless training at people while not paying people, BS.
Our Services are great, if you can get them scheduled,, again a lack of available people.
Our inside sales force talent level in my short 3 years has declined enormously, I watch as sales people wait days for quotes and then when we validate them they are wrong, they dont check them before they send them out and then it takes days to fix them again, the metrics they use for tracking their performnace is skewed grossly, wake up KLL. You cant request a quote and say the clock doesnt start ticking until the CSR has it, if it sits in the que for a day then thats a day lost.
All that said I will hang out and give my 60-75 percent work effort, which means I am actually getting a raise and I gave it to myself, (see paragraph above relative to less work effort). And while I am doing that I will hope that I can stay a float until the market turns around, see same paragraph above, and then make a career change that benefits me and my family. That change will last until the next downturn in the economy and I will do the same thing then, no loyalty in the work place anymore, same paragraph above. That lack of loyalty stretches both ways, employer to employee and employee to employer.
EDS, did you ever get short changed when HP bought you, it was a good deal for the shareholders but a bad deal for you.
Love our products, love our people, dont think much of our leadership. And whats up with all the SUN and Oracle leaders, Oracle knows nothing of infrastructure and SUN leaders ran the company into the ground, come on, cant we do better than that.
And lastly, we dont respond well to bolded threatning email, it doesnt drive the desire to work harder.
In closing I am suggesting that our leadership invoke the next csot cutting method, have all employees sit in their cars outside their nieghbors house and get free wireless internet, what do you think?
Well I have said a lot here but let me leave you now as I just needed to vent my thoughts, I do feel a little better.
Cisco is hiring data center folks............ In the meantime I will work on SAP architecture solutions.
Are you investors concerned yet? You should be.
Mark Hurds ego has run away with him and "his" HP is starting to cross the line legally. It is time to make a stand, of course walking away from this shambolic company with a large legal payout will also be a bonus.
Female employees who give birth used to receive a S$165 of cash gift, and that was taken away because, as the letter from HR puts it, it's not an industry norm. Of course it's not an indurstry norm! Other companies providde bigger subsidies for gynae fees! What is this S$165?
E-awards were no longer given to finance staff. We are no longer rewarded in this way for our efforts. :( Your base pay is enough. Even though I have never receive big e-awards, but a $100 eaward tells me that my efforts are valued.
Now this pay cut saga, with the numerous HR emails to those who click NO, I think the whole saga is ridiculous. If we are told that our pay will be reviewed when the economy picks up, I'll say YES to paycut. But NO! Our pay is PERMANENTLY reduced! It doesn't sound like a job saving strategy! It sounds like exploitation! :(
Now that the Apr 30th dateline is over, I wonder if we will receive another appeal to reconsider our decision, or will we get WFR (with no compensation) for those who stick with our decision.
I bet they will make you feel awfull and guilty of not agreeing to the pay cut.
Privacy?? I do not think so, because managers and are aware of our consent.
Anyhow, I did not change my mind of saying "NO". They might WFR my job or make me to another role that I will not like to work on.
I only had a measly less than 1% of salary increase last year, I could not afford a pay cut of 5%.
It's sad, I no longer feel safe & happy to work in HP and every day is a worrying day.
I'm here to deliver a serious wake-up call. In my experience up to this point, all of our best-shored staff are the laziest, most inept IT workers on the planet. They take days to respond to messages. They are never online when they are supposed to be. Development time has ballooned since they took over. The entire development process(as well as every other process) is in utter chaos.
We literally pays hundreds of thousands of dollars every month in penalties, due in large part to the idiocy and sloth-fullness from our best-shore counterparts.
Best-shoring is literally bleeding HP/EDS dry.
Best shoring only makes sense from a pure cost perspective and that's the only driver. The reality however is a much more mediocre experience all round, I don't know anyone who appreciates service from 3rd world countries, with all due respect, it just doesn't stack up and when it does, or begins to, the price will go up, thus defeating the purpose.
Granted there's a certain element of this that's our fault - we drive companies to deliver products and services at discount prices - but that problem should be solved by producing products and services that customers are keen to pay a premium for, not by making your company even more mediocre.
What concerns me the most is that Mark Hurd's HP is still publicly promoting itself as the HP of old while privately eroding all of it's expertise, eliminating invention, disenfranchising the employee base, and making the Customer experience totally frustrating. It's actually sad to see considering the companies history. Investors should be very wary of this situation.
Funny that couple of years back, they are still urging us to watch that "HP value" DVD. Back then, I am already wondering where is this so-called HP-value? Now....
Redundancies will happen whatever you decide.
But now, that little part is slowly fading into thin air. I felt harassed and disturbed now, and losing confidence. Let me explain why.
My country required employees to consent to the pay cut. So initially I was told by my immediate manager that this is strictly a personal decision, management will not track who chose "No" and there will be no retaliation, nor special pay/bonus adjustments in the future if we choose "Yes". Guess what, just before the 1st deadline, our director called an urgent meeting, dedicating 1 hour of precious work time of 50 people, to strongly encourage people to support the company and reconsider our decision. He mentioned that managers could consider compensating folks who choose "No" in their future compensations. After that, the 2nd level manager sent an SMS to my team members' personal mobile phones, re-iterating the same "plea". Starting to feel uncomfortable...
I finally made a response, which is negative. This is after careful consideration of my current financial burden and family situation. Besides, my spouse (who is also in HP) had consented, so overall we are still helping with a 2.5% cut. I thought that the saga would be over and I can concentrate on delivering good work for the company. But no, a HR email was sent out after the 1st deadline, suggesting that "a lot of people have been asking whether they can revert their decision", so HR has kindly extended the deadline (2nd deadline). My spouse had forwarded me an email from his management that talked about high level of Rejects in our country as compared to high level of Accepts in other harsher countries which the employees worked harder, paid lower and still support the paycut, AND how he felt that many employees "seem to disassociate their fate from that of the company’s". Really started to get annoyed. How could he said that? Is it fair to blanket all folks in our country and imply that we don't work as hard as employees in other countries? Disassociating our fate from the company's? How about the other way round. Did the company associate with each individual employee's fate when the paycut and WFR are dished out? NO.
Today, AP HR sent out another email to those who responded negative to delay the deadline (3rd one, when's the next?). They appeal again to our moral sense to save the company, and at the same time revealed that our country's cost structure would have "strong impact" if we don't meet the number of Accepts.
I have had enough of these harassement. Perhaps it is not the lower management's fault as they too are pressurized by the top. But overall, I felt that the management is not very honest and truthful in their communications, changing from being a "personal decision" to "strongly appeal" etc. All the meetings, emails, sms. I realised, they will only stop when you finally breakdown and choose "Yes", or, leave the company.
I think it might be better to take a mandatory pay cut or WFR and move on with life, than to be sincerely making a serious decision and be harassed and mocked like that. I'm disappointed.
Thank you for putting in your post.. I've been reading all of this and was seeing where people were having the option to choose Yes/No on whether to accept the paycut and I thought I was intetionally left off the email string because my manager just said this is what they are doing... The 5% paycutt hurt! It basically took away the last two pay raises of 3% that I have gotten in the last 4 years that I worked my butt off to get (not that those kept up with the economy). The first paycheck after it went into affect I stumbled and said ok if I do this and this I can still do ok. Then it was announced that for the month of April they were going to take 15% of my pay (again no Yes/No emails)and that first paycheck took my breath away. Now how the hell am I supposed to pay the car note?
But, yes, you are being harassed in contravention of the SBC, not to mention the question about uncompromising integrity. It seems to me there are two sets of rules that apply here.
This so called vote is being carried out in a way that would make Robert Mugabe proud - so much for uncompromising integrity eh?
My recommendation is that if you want to vote no, then do it and don't cave in to manipulation.
This is a case of the blind leading the blind, i.e. middle to higher management communications making out everything will be OK. Quality \ Conformance is going out the window.
This offshore model does not work, kicking out your best homebread people, not giving pay rises (when due) does not work!.
Just like the banking piggies who didn't come up for air, they troughed until it was too late and were allowed to trough by their respective Governments. Oh its a global problem they cry now!!, hmmm no actually its a US \ UK problem of greedy capitalism that has been allowed to run riot in our finance systems and now our multi nationals like HP, except they (the Governments) can't yet see whats happening at companies like HP cos it ain't hit them in straight in the face.
Companies that grew up in the west over 50 years with hard working dedicated workers should not sell those workers and their families and the future of their home countries out to the greedy needs of a few share holders and execs.
If I was a shareholder I would be very very concerned - there will be nothing left to sustain the value of your investment, the foundations of any ongoing value are being eroded day by day.
When problem arise, you dont fix the symptoms, you go straight to the core and "cut out the tumor".
And what is the tumour? The FEDERAL RESERVE!!
The Federal Reserve artificually keeps interest rates low while artificially keeping the U.S. dollar stronger than it really is. And since interest rates are so low, there is no incentive to put money in the bank (since inflation will eat it faster than your R.O.I. from a bank account) The Federal Reserve also manipulates the price of gold and silver. If Gold was allowed to increase to where it should be, the U.S. dollar would come crashing down where it should be. Since the U.S. dollar is stronger than it really should be, jobs are shipped overseas to countries where its cheaper to produce the products.
Since America has lost most of their jobs to cheaper labor overseas, they have nothing left to make a living. And the jobs that ARE left are low paying.
Anyways the moral of the story is the Federal Reserve distorts the economy, therefore causing booms and busts. If the American dollar was backed by some commodity (like gold, or silver), there would be alot more stability to the system!
Hurd and his cronies ARE contributing to the problem through their immoral greed.
BTW, has anybody seen any national mag's or TV that blasted these pay cuts while talking about Turd's bonus? I was hoping someone would pick up on it?
None of the promises made to me in my interview (either explicit or implicit) were kept by EDS. No bonuses, no payrises and one by one, EDS senior management removed every tool from my Manager's Toolbox until all I had left was the ability to punish people. Team Management under those circumstances is impossible.
Certain senior managers were quite open in their comments such as "this is a recession, we can do whatever we want". The Work Force Reduction (WFR) process was not based on business needs. Each WFR was an across the board 10% cut which came down to "give me names".
The WFR process has broken the "espirit de corps" and co-operative attitude of 1st line managers. No manager in EDS can afford to be seen to be helping another because if you can help, you obviously have excess resources and therefore are the next target in the next round of reductions.
Past behaviour is an indicator to future behaviour. EDS/HP had not kept any of the promises it made to me during my interview. Given that behaviour I judged it better to leave the company on my terms (not a WFR) rather than stay and perpetuate unethical behaviour.
I am told that your experiences relate primarily to EDS before the acquisition by HP. Don't misrepresent facts.
Daffy Duck
It is better to find a new job and leave HP, we don't now what will happen tomorrow. One fine day they will provide WFR letter.
lost@HP
And there's a rainbow on the other side but for me, the oppression stops...
BTW, when & where did Mark Hurd say that "how dare you question me" line? Is it on youtube or only found as a transcript or video in the intranet?
Read the fine print in the WFR notice. Even if you were crazy enough, you couldn't come back to work at HP ever. The WFR packages since January include a "this person can not be hired back by HP clause". Why anyone would put something like that into the WFR...who the F#ck knows...Turd and his cronies are a bunch of scumbags.
are you sure about that clause at HP? In EDS you are eligible for rehire after 6 months.
At the Commonwealth Bank where they are also forecasting a lower profit, the leadership showed they can act as leaders.
The board agreed to cut the salary of CEO Mr Norris and the directors by 10 per cent for next financial year. He earns about $3.1 million a year, so his pay will be cut about $310,000.
The 10 board members earn an average of $200,000, meaning each will take a $20,000 cut.
Each of the 10 members of the executive committee will lose 5 per cent. They earn collectively $8.3 million a year, meaning a reduction of $41,500 per person.
The executive general managers, general managers and executive managers will receive no pay rise or bonuses for 12 months. All others who earn more than $100,000 will have their pay frozen.
The savings will in part go to those who earn less than $100,000 - about 70 per cent of the bank's 40,000 workers. Each will receive a 1.5 per cent rise.
The bank has also agreed to maintain its ban on sending jobs offshore for another three years.
It's a pity many of our other corporate leaders don't have the same ethical approach to difficult decisions.
Adam Lashinsky of Fortune spoke with Mark Hurd back in 2006 and elicited some revealing responses.
Adam: "Other than apologizing and promising to do better, which you've done repeatedly now, how can you convince investors, employees and the public that next time, you'll make the right decision in an ethical situation."
Mark: "I don't know that you can every convince anybody with words. It takes actions."
Adam: "Is there an action you are contemplating that will show that?"
Mark: "Well, we'll see."
Personally, I think I've seen enough of how he will respond in an difficult situation.
"How dare you question me when I say my own salary will not be frozen for 2009...."
HP IT employees at certain US sites have been told that IT is leaving and IT employees were given a list of sites they must relocate to if they choose to keep their jobs. When the announcement was made a year ago, we had five sites to choose from...none sounded attractive to me. Here it is, time to decide if we will move or not and we are only given one choice now...Austin, TX.
If we choose not to relocate, there is no severance. No "Workforce reduction" package is offered. They will consider it "voluntary resignation". Just walk away. This is a grand scheme to reduce the workforce and do it for free. Simply move the jobs to freaking Pluto, and if workers can't get there, well...so sorry. No severance because your job did not end, we simply moved it and you chose not to go.
Possibly a bigger story here is that *ALL* IT resources at two MAJOR Northwest sites will be gone (hundreds of people). How much longer do you think they will have sites there? No IT resources? It just means that very shortly, those sites will cease to exist. This is just the next step toward that in my opinion.
There is another twist. HP has made a deal with the city of Austin...if they can move 280 employees to the Austin site, they will get over $4M in tax cuts. This is all on record and the official agreement is available online - it is city record.
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/redevelopment/downlo...
When asked "WHY?" we must relocate, management (all the way to the top) states it is to get more collaboration going. By having more people in one place around the water cooler, good things will happen. Oh really? Well, is my boss going to move to Austin too? "Well...no." Hmmm, I see.
They notified us a year in advance. They hoped that one by one, we'd leave the company and not cost them a dime. This facilitates an orderly downsizing as people hand off their tasks and responsibilities as they leave individually. Less disruption. And that did happen. Quite a few left...those that could find other jobs. As for those that didn't bail...the best hope of management is that they don't move and they don't have to pay their sorry asses any more. No severance, so it's a free workforce reduction. Next best, they move their carcasses to Austin so that they get some warm bodies in the seats there to get their tax exemption.
Not relocating and leaving with a severance (which I would prefer) is not offered to me or my IT coworkers. I've been a very tip top rated performer for 15 years and am getting crapped on by the Dark Turd (as many of us call him) and The Dark Lord himself, Randy Mott (Mr. 282%). Record profits and they can't see to pay me a standard, respectable parting severance for my outstanding service now that they are done with me. I've been told I can't volunteer for WFR. Not possible. Don't call us, we'll call you.
The amazing thing is that HP won't give us ANYTHING in writing about this deal. It's all verbal. No paper trail. So, at the verbal notification of my remote manager over the phone, my wife is supposed to quit her job, we are to sell our house in a depressed market and move 2000 miles when the company is cutting and slashing more jobs every week. No guarantee that I won't get cut upon arriving in Austin. HP has even gone as far as to tell us we are not eligible for unemployment. They did not lay us off, we chose to leave! Well, the state frowns on employers moving jobs out of state, so we will get unemployment if we choose to pursue that. HP is playing it pretty crappy.
Many of us are grabbing up responsibility and taking on big projects with a smiley face - fully intending to bail with no notice later this spring and summer and leave chaos behind us. Other than the continued paycheck for now, there isn't any reason or incentive to do anything else. We must notify HP in writing of our intention to move by May 2nd, 2009. If we choose to relocate, we must be moved and report to work in Austin on Nov. 1. If we don't choose to move, we can continue to work until Nov. 1 after which the paycheck stops and we are "terminated". We've been offered a pittance move package...does not even come close to paying the expenses of a relocation like that.
There is an exception process. I heard yesterday that someone applied for an exception because their wife requires frequent medical treatment that is ONLY available in Portland, OR (near the Vancouver HP site). The request was DENIED. Another employee provides advanced care for his elderly invalid mother. He needs a job, so he will be relocating to Austin and will leave his wife behind to take care of his mother. He has no other choice. I bet Bill and Dave would be proud of the new HP Way: Breaking up Families. Wow, this turned into a book. Sorry.
YES! This blog post is really sadden me. I spotted two small deviations in the post.
1. "Here it is, time to decide whether we move or not, and we are just a selection ... now Austin, TX."
- Technically, you can move to any Core IT site .... but you having to pay for your own move and no warranty that your new site is not closing in 12 months.
2. "They will consider it “voluntary resignation”."
- The phrase I've hear (I am manager) ... was "voluntary termination."
When this site closing was first announced the senior management team said they'd keep employees informed. Well, that was not the case for near 8 months. Managers are very averse to speak about other site closures, but you know more come. I para-phrase Randy Mott below.
"HP-IT review the core location-strategy on an annual basis, no decision has been taken over Boise, Dublin, Palo Alto (regardless of location) in this year"
If you're not in a selected location (less than the core sites), you will not see any job vacancies in the HP-IT. The message is clear. If you're not in a small number of sites, you have no future with HP-IT.
By the way my friends, I was informed that if one of my employees do not willing to move, I was able to terminate their employment at any time until 1 November. After 1 November, you still get stopped. Of course, this is not well documented.
What makes me sick to the back teeths is that it really is tearing families apart.
- Many people can their homes not to sell and have no money to buy a second home in Austin. HP DOES NOT CARE! SHAME ON THE HP SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM. SHAME ON YOU ALL!
- There is no consideration that employees have family who they have to leave behind. The note about caring for sick family members in the original post is all too true and impact many families. Out of all the issues, this one make me the sickest. SHAME ON THE HP SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM. SHAME ON YOU ALL! REALLY, DO YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELVES? DID THEY TEACH THIS ON YOUR MBA COURSE! YOU ARE SICK SICK PEOPLE!
- There is no guarantee that if you move have a job next year. It is unwritten, but spoken. KEEP UP THE FEAR HP SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM, WE DON’T WANT PEOPLE COMFORTABLE!
- HP senior management team sell move to employees as it is a good business, a growth opportunity. Senior Managers get much more relocation package to move. DOUBLE STANDARDS! AND I BET THEY GET BIG BONUS FOR THIS. SHAME ON YOU ALL!
Many of the HP-IT senior management team of Wal * Mart. I have reading enough to see that the modus operandi is the same.
If any HP senior management team reads this, I hope you get a moment to reflect the position YOU have put a lot of people in.
YOU WILL BE 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR SOME FAMILY BREAKUPS and SOME SUICIDES.
OF THIS I AM SURE.
I HOPE YOU CARRY THAT THOUGHT WITH YOU FOR YOUR LIVES. SHAME ON YOU ALL! I BET IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD MAKING ALL THE BONUS WHEN PEOPLE SUFFER! SHAME ON YOU! WORDS ARE NOT DESCRIBING YOU!
As manager in IT I find this all very upsetting. I am now on medication for depression and stress and the search for another job or thinking to quit every day. Senior management are only interested to hear what they want to hear.
SHAME ON THE SENIOR MANAGEMENT TEAM!
HP is doing to its customers (and employees) like Enron did to the state of California, causing all the rolling power outages. Instead of customers being without power, HP's are without solutions to problems due to cutbacks and off shoring of Operating System and Application engineering groups. Sorry to say this to all the folks in the “call centers” in India, China, and Costa Rica, but our customers are not happy with the support they receive from you. How about letting these call centers handle $500 PC support and $100 printer support? The mission critical customer has slightly higher expectations.
Customers are being hung out to dry by HP as the company strives to make more profit from labor arbitrage.
The net result of HP sending engineering and support offshore is that HP can charge the same or more for contracts and products, but offer cheaper but inferior products and services.
The documentary I watched has audio tapes of Enron employees laughing at the problems the power outages were causing the state of California. Just like at HP, the problems emanated from the top. What is the common denominator with HP and Enron? Try greed. HP has employees in their support centers whose main job function is to "Fall on the Sword" when a problem arises. Each problem is treated individually and from what I can tell, no trending analysis takes place. Each "crisis" is treated like it is the first time it has happened, when in fact that is so far from the truth. These problems must be solved at a low-level and not allowed to work there way back up to the executive level, or heads will roll.
Customers paying millions for hardware, support, and services are treated about the same as an AOL customer paying $30/month for internet service. All this so that the pigs at the trough can get millions and bonuses and the shareholders are happy. Is this what the shareholders really want? Is HP a house of cards like Enron that may collapse someday?
So who are the smartest ones in the room at HP? The ones that tell Hurd that everything is okay? The ones that tell him that the customer is happy?
HP is managed by a spreadsheet today. That spreadsheet doesn't care what HP will look like in five years, by which time Hurd will have cashed out to the tune of a half billion dollars if what we have seen in recent golden parachutes for departing CEOs. Someone needs to tell the emperor about his clothes. Problem is, he doesn't want to hear it, and instructs his subordinates not to bring things up the chain.
I guess this gig is a better thing than he had in his previous life as lowly NCR exec. Silicon Valley is so much cooler than the Midwest. I doubt NCR would put up with mortgage assistance and an entertainment allowance and Gulfstreams. It must be fun to be King. At HP he is forefront on the world stage. Some see a great leader and CEO, while I simply see a pig at the trough.
I am glad to hear Mark rises before five to get an edge on the competition. I guess he sleeps well despite all the pain and suffering he causes his employees and customers.
He needs to be FIRED. If not for what I talk about in this post, but for things you can read about in the previous hundreds of posts.
The pirates have been plundering our treasures for some time, maybe a union is our only choice. Try voting at a stock holders meeting meeting for ethics for these money sapping type A's ha ha ha.
Ethical moment? makes me wonder which ones "they" watch
Don’t go over and above; do as little as possible to get done with the engagment and get home.
If anyone from another department needs something and it doesnt help you; skip it..what the point.
IF we do as little as possible to jsut keep our jobs, dont make excuses for anything, and don’t cover for the company; eventually customers will quit buying, and maybe some change will happen.
"HP will respect your decision without consequences"... anyway I´m not signing this "meeting of minds"!!. Fortunately, I had a job opportunity in another great company and I'm in the middle of the hiring process... I'm not complaining, HP has a lot of Pros (you can work from home any time, you can buy HP products with discount and in pay terms, here in Mexico we have transport service) but the Cons are stronger...
Also Sean Finnan has gone (previously head of EDS UK).
The WFR's are going to happen ANYWAY.
Saying Yes will only put money in Hurd's pocket.
But 2 weeks later, there are more than 50 employees been notified to be retrenched.
There is no immunity for anyone. The shit comes from the top. The middle level will definitely pass it down.
It will take Worldwide effort to throw the shit back at Mark Hurd. But I doubt anyone will take the risk of losing their temporary job to speak up. Mark Hurd has designed this game of Survival for everyone... "Outlast".
Of cos, he is winner for the 42millions. 2009, maybe another 30~40millions.
All the loyal HP employees will not sabotage HP because of a heartless and greedy CEO. Else we are going down to his level.
Just lift your head high and work for your daily salary with dignity. If you are not able to detach from Bill and Dave era, I hope you find a better job elsewhere.
Anyway, it is just a job. Mark Hurd don't owe us a living.
Here's what Mark and his drones are going to reap.
HP will fail to attract top talent as the smart people will prefer to go and work for attractive organizations (assuming some are still left). Who !?! in their right mind would work at HP if they could get a job at Google, M$ or Apple?
The remaining pool of "talent" will not have the creativity, ability, motivation to take HP 10 - 20 years in to the future. When's the last time HP invented something cool? Free thinking has pretty much been extinguished throughout HP.
HP will morph into A.N.Other dull services organization, if it's lucky to survive at all.
Share price will decline and not come back up as there's nothing new to generate excitement.
UH-OH! That's already happened!!!!
I hope HP mgmt are reading and taking note! Stick your FY09 VoW where it don't shine.
EDS & HP, two lackluster organizations become one.
"Just lift your head high and work for your daily salary with dignity. If you are not able to detach from Bill and Dave era, I hope you find a better job elsewhere."
It's nothing to do with Bill & Dave... We're not ready to be assimilated into a new-world order. Gee! is this how regimes start... "oooh, just round up the and shoot them WITH daily salary and dignity". Hell no!
"Anyway, it is just a job. Mark Hurd don’t owe us a living"
Mark and our managers should treat us with respect and dignity(and most people in HP do earn and deserve that respect). It's part of the harasment free work policy and more importantly, it's how all humans should treat one another. We're being screwed, and losing our dignity as we are forced to maintain a facade that "we are happy".
I for one, will not leave (without a payout at least - hey, everyone's got a price) because some bully rode in on his 10 bit horse. No Way! I'll do my best to squeeze every last $ out of the company while bad mouthing it in forums like this. Heck... it's not badmouthing - it's real-mouthing.
Read 'White Collar Sweat-Shop' by Jill Andresky Fraser. Thats what we're all so angry about!
I know this is your personal blog, but I thought you might be willing to pass this message along to your readers. I think they would be interested in it!
Terremark Worldwide is holding an Open House in Plano, Texas (literally just down the street from HP/EDS headquarters).
The event is Thursday, 4/16, from 5:00-7:00 p.m. at the Marriott Legacy Town Center. It's a chance for IT professionals to come hear more about us and meet some of our leadership (and hiring managers).
Even in this economy, while companies like HP/EDS continue to slash salaries to meet their targets, our company is doing well! We have several current opportunities available in Dallas and across the country, and are anticipating future needs, as well.
They can get more information on our website at www.terremark.com under News and Events.
Regards,
Kristi Zilliken
Recruiting Manager
Terremark Worldwide
In the organization I work in it's all about management by fear and intimidation. We are asked to do so many things that include veiled threats that if the deal isn't pulled in to this quarter(or whatever) that we'll find someone else to do the job. We're expected to do what we're told 24X7, work life balance is a thing of the past. Everyone is very frustrated, we feel like we are managed by check box. Do what we ask, don't ask questions, get that check next to your name. The only feedback is negative, rarely a simple thank you or job well done.
While I would like to see the company return to some of the old Bill & Dave ways I just can't see that it will happen. I think it's become accetable to prop up profit at the expense of the employees. If there was a way to organize and fight back I would sign up. In the mean time the most logical thing to do is look for work outside of HP. Things may not be perfect out there but I can't imagine an environment much worse than the one we live in now.
Too right. It's never written down, but it's communicated. XYZ must be completed by XYZ... i.e. If you don't get this done on time, you'll be on the wrong side of an 'i' rating or worse.
You can't complain in VoW because that's turned into a witch-hunt too. "We must help those people let go of the past" (was a quote I overheard) It's also easy for managers to determine where comments came from and determine the complainers.
On another note, many managers are in the same (or infact a worse) boat as the rest of us. They're trying to do make ends meet, pay their bills and grapple with forwarding B.S.
Fall in line or leave. that's the message.
I realize and empathize that there's now a climate of fear and intimidation within HP, and I fortunately am immune to it having left the company, honestly, other than continuing to publish opinion's about the situation I'm not entirely sure what to do about it. I can tell you that there's a good life outside HP, the grass can be greener on the other side if you find yourself in a position where your skills and intelligence are seen as having value, but if you choose to stay in HP I would strongly suggest that you find a way to make yourself immune from fear and intimidation (I did it by starting my online marketing business while I was there - I no longer cared about being WFR'ed and in Australia they can't fire you) then you can refuse to work any hours you are not being paid for, you can speak up, write blog articles (use an alias if you need to) and generally stand up for your rights as an employee.
The whole concept that it's all about the shareholders and their profit is just wrong and Mark Hurd has to learn that we expect much more social accountability from him and his ilk.
I'm glad that I've a choice and have decided to opt out. By opting out, I mean as in really out. Out of HP, that is. I was going to say "goodbye" my buddies, but now, I can only say "good luck". I can't say if my new job will be any better, but at least, I have a chance at doing something new. Adding more experiences to my resume is always good, I think.
It's sad to leave my friends and colleagues to fight this apparently loosing battle. I can only wonder when the global economy recovers, how will HP cope with the increasing biz demands. During the boom cycle of the last 2-3 years, it was already difficult to meet customer demands from the delivery perspective. With this round of increased tension between Hurd/EC/senior management and the rest of us, it is almost certain that HP will only emerge weaker although Wall Street may still be impressed with Hurd's monthly/quarterly miracles performed on the P&L at the employees' expense.
Just to add to the HP/EDS delivery problems that other HP folks have mentioned at other parts of the world, Singapore is no exception. One of the major govt contracts which was originally won by pre-acquisition EDS, is now entering delivery phase. I've heard from several sources that delivery personnel for this major project is being hired (at trying to hire) in droves. Any IT talent who is still marketable outside would really have to be out of his/her mind to join HP/EDS at this point in time. The result? Liabilities to the Singapore govt to deliver an outsourcing project that simply cannot fail. I'm sure glad not to be working (and never shall I) for the local govt. It'll be funny that 1-2 years down the road, I'll have problems getting helpdesk support when my laptop/desktop goes BSOD or when my Exchange/Lotus Notes email is totally screwed. If I'm the govt rep in-charge of working with HP/EDS on this project, I'll scrutinize HP/EDS with daily concalls or better yet, get another job.
It's a pity that I wasn't able to join HP during those days when HP was run with the original HP Way in it's veins. The H(urd's) P(ainful) Way we have now will no doubt fly the plane to the ground. Obama for HP CEO anyone?
HP senior management do not understand the IT industry, they only understand how to screw people over for a few bucks.
In Marks latest "interview" he admits there is no strategy and there are no guarantees..So there we are a CEO who gets paid $42M+ and he is just winging it day to day.
I note that the key question is still avoided..Will Mark take a bonus this year if awarded one ?
We have two options - unionise or leave.
I know what im going to do.
Well, heres a simple lesson.
If you allow yourself to be "screwed" then you will be screwed. Think it's only HPQ, IBM, GE, CISCO ??????? Not hardly.
I see so much whinning and moaning and complianing that it's getting to be quite sickening.
You had a choice, you have a choice, yet it seems you would rather lament your position than do anything about it. Blogging will do one thing - it will make you feel good enough to take your licks, move on, then complain again about how badly you were treated. You really make yourselve's look like lemmings. Following the hind end of another lemming over a cliff.
How would you like to say, " Management wanted to boot me out the door after training an indian replacement, but I had to tell them no thanks. I have a family to support and I like to live indoors, wear clothes and eat.
Now, I am not just blowing smoke out my ass.
I was born a US citizen, but have lived in what you like to term as an emerging nation. I lived much more comfortably than Americans currently living in tent cities.
Once Americans experience life as corporate America has planned for you ( think chinese) you will be begging a union to take your small dues and save your ass.
I am not affiliated with Alliance at IBM or any other organization of the CWA.
I am however an union member. I have a job. I have a contract. I have benefits than can not be taken away. I can say my salary can not be cut %10.0 while executives take a %.0001 cut in compensation.
Feels good. Wish you were here...................
Respectfully, "whatever dude".
Some of us are venting in the vain hope that maybe some of this hits home and makes other people think. There's a small army of us out there tagging every article about HP with this site.
Some of us are fighting for fairness. We're not fighting about 5%, or bonuses. "whatever". We simply want fairness.
This isn't the only action that will be taken. And quiting's for quiters. We might be complaining and whinning, but we're simply resisting.
Quitting is hardly action. Staying and fighting... that's action.
I have been greatly heartened and reassured by this blog; the above poster is correct - tag this site to every goddamn article posted about HP. I have been very active in this regard but we all need to pull together so go for it! I believe this site is an initial manifestation of a disgusted outrage brewing across the middle and working classes of our country and the world.
“Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it.”
This was a quote by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, used ironically in HP by a superb manager and leader in the days when we shared in the company's greatness. The time has come for this again, sadly in a different context, but all the more vital nonetheless.
Tarq,
I don't think you really caught the gist of what I was trying to convey.
I never said give up, but to fight back.
The "whatever dude" attitude is not going to improve your position in corporate America. Employees are no longer assets but liabilities.
You are a drain on executive bonuses, unless you are willing to work for chinese wages or for free.
What "action" is being taken other than tagging articles about HP ?
My point about blogging....
Fairness ( I'm not really sure what you mean by "fairness" specifically, but I'll take that as fairness as to management treating employees equally ) is not going to be handed to you. You need leverage. You need something legally enforceable. Can you not see this ?
Please be more specific and I will be more specific with my response.
I am all for free enterprise, but the extent that these executives compensate themselves is pure extortion. Its time for the government to step in and put an end to legalized corporate extortion posting as legitimate executive compensation.
The hand-picked and unimpeachable board is complicit in this crime. The only way to make the board take note is to do what I have done: I have liquidated 100% of my HP shares and I refuse to buy products made by HP (sic) and supported by some guy in Mumbai called Gupta. Invariably I end up talking to Mr. Gupta and never finding a solution because either I can't understand his English or the problem doesn't show up in his picture book.
HP INVENT they claim. I'm not sure exactly what HP invents any more. This is a company that makes its money on ink.
today i was just watching a documentary on Judas, betraying the people that took him in like a family...for money.
There was Judas, now there is Hurd-as
oh...today there is an email...
[sorry...email deleted for company confidentiality reasons...if you work for HP I assume you got it...DS]
I am in one of such countries. I just wrote to the presidential office, also send links to this site and also this one wich is the place where mr DS took the information from
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47217/00...
At least they can get another side of the picture the executives are partially drawing to them
Incredible, isn't it? Some of my pals who are still inside did not dare to click no because of this fear. I wonder what this does to the morale? I believe I don't have to say much. Go figure.
I urge everyone to ask a few questions: where is it better? Is the grass greener in the unemployment line? Are there companies immune to the recession? If so, please reply with application information.
I can certainly appreciate that some of our CEO's actions are short-sighted and are indicative of the "do more with less" operative to an EXTREME extent. But let's be realistic - all companies are facing these issues. Just as many other CEO's are forced to make difficult decisions, and just as all US Presidents have done, they are in roles where they can never be 100% popular. There is no right answer - though we must understand his role is not just to protect the employees, it is also to protect the company. There is no decision that achieves both in this scenario.
HP's projections for 2009 pale in comparison to what they achieved in 2008 - to date, there have been no significant cuts in my department. Will there be? Likely. In my case, if territories did well with the amount of coverage in 2008, and we are projected to do much less in 2009 - what's the alternative? Shall the captain go down with his ship and a happy crew? Doesn't make much sense to me.
Employees are a most valuable asset to this company - but as with any ship, if there is a cannon that won't shoot cannon-balls, throw that thing overboard and move on.
During the stellar 2008 year, thousands of HP employees found themselves unemployed, during the years before that thousands more, right now, despite the lie that the pay cuts would save 20,000 jobs, thousands of jobs are disappearing or being moved off shore. You can bet that when we find ourselves in an improved economy he will still be cutting jobs so there will be thousands of ex HP people who can answer your question about whether the grass is greener. I can tell you from personal experience that it is much greener outside - I should probably just shut up and go away - but some things have to be said.
No one disputes that managing a company the size of HP is not an easy task, but I do dispute your statement that you can't achieve employee protection and company protection at the same time.
You also can't compare HP with companies that are facing bankruptcy as a result of this recession, remember we're talking $1.9 billion net profit in 12 weeks, and tens of billions of dollars in cash reserves. We're only asking for a balance between expedient management, the fair and equitable treatment of employees, and some social accountability. A good CEO would achieve that.
HP's previous stellar performance came on the back of employee exploitation, moving jobs off shore, and cutting the R&D; budget to the extent that it has removed the "invent" from the company.
I would suggest that unless HP achieves sustainable growth through new products, services, and Customer satisfaction, as opposed to cost cutting and employee exploitation, the captain will go down with his ship whether the crew is happy or not.
What scares me now is the impending alignment of EDS Job codes to HP codes where will this leave EDS employees? worse off? no doubt, but does anyone know how this will really work. There are a few comments on here about HP having a very low base salary and the rest is flexible?!?!. I don't know how this will pan out. Perhaps being an EDS Euro worker might protect us again! How did US workers get such a raw deal that they have no worthwhile protection as an employee?
Keep these comments going..through to Q2 results. Lets see what they earn. I'm guessing the results will be good again, good that is for the Execs and shareholders!.
I'm not sure but I'm willing to bet that it's got something to do with the US phobia about social welfare.
How can they allow huge bonuses to CEOs and other top Exec's then turn around and allow them to layoff their workforces.
The world is in this recession because all the big corporations only cared about their stock price. What could they do to increase it.
I am not American (Canadian here) but your country was founded basically because of a revolution. I dont understand why more people are up in arms about how your workforce is being dismantled.
I guess most people are happy watching their TV.
If I'm being offered by other company now, I will not look back at H-P and will certainly not recommend H-P.
You hear us, we are now being sell off like cheap labours.
No choice but to work under your command and no life.
Work life balance??? Yeah right, this is for you all managers and top level.
Based on performance??? This is all bullshit from managers, they dont even perform one on one meet up with you. Nothing, maybe they distribute evenly.
Maybe just end my miserable working with you H-P and find a new job.
BTW, I speak from experience...3 managers in 6 years and none does that.
above says it all really - Hurd is part of the pack who are increasingly gobbling our lunch since the 70's, and using their ill-gotten gains to subvert democracy. Time to lobby your local politicians, campaign against this rank inequity, and ram this pay cut up Hurd's pampered a$$!
When HP merged with CPQ to make the new HPQ, Carly basically ousted the majority of the old HP Field Management. I once sat at a diner meeting and around the table there were(12) HPQ resources, including sales, mid level managers and a one regional VP. Then I realized I was the ONLY original HP employee there. Man, I have to tell you, I was really uncomfortable. The CPQ mentality was SO DAM different than HP. They were ruthless, arrogant, and in some cases down right ignorant human beings. But, you have to make do with the job at hand, and I was way to old to change careers at that point in life. So, I kissed a little ass and simply stuck it out until the EER offer came in.
During that period I tried to go from a sales (salary plus commission) pay plan to a consulting role (straight salary plan) and HPQ/s basic attitude was to simply cut out you commission income. They forgot that HP's original plan took the commission percentage and held it out till you made your quota. The job requirements were exactly the same, just a different title, but it would have meant a $50K pay cut as I rarely was under my annual quota. When I left in May of 2007, I was 143% of quota, but HPQ made me wait 9 months before they would release my last commission check, actually the bonus amount of commission for being so far over quota. Again, very glad I took the EER offer!
Now, let's get to the other side of the coin. Mark Hurd, bless his soul, is supposed to cut expenses and payroll is a good place to do just that. There was overlap everwhere I turned in our Region of the country, and many deals paid out 5-6 people for a single sale when you comp all the other interested team players and mangers. Really stupid, and even we in the field realized it. The EDS merger will result in more overlap and it's a normal follow on to cut our the excess in HR, typically 10% to 15% or more depending on the companies that merger. HPQ still makes up a large portion of my stock portfolio, and I expect Mark to do his job, as well as all the other high level executives at HPQ.
B U T:
Paying Mark $42M when the average employee only makes say $75K, well that's 560 times the average employee's wages! Heaven help us, that is absolutely WRONG! And, $75K is probably high after so many long time higher paid employees are no longer there and some/many replaced by new hires at much lower pay rates.
Shame on Mark, SHAME ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR AUTHORIZING IT! SHAME on the top tier executives who make up $140M in wages that only take a net pay reduction of less than 1%. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!
Having worked for HP for ten years I have seen it go from bad to worse. We thought Carly was Bad!! Cost cutting has got to the stage that we are not alowed to use or put fuel in the two office fleet cars. After being premoted by two grades 3 years later no pay rises/measly bonusI have taken a demotion in order not to get extra hours to break even.
As for the 2.5% pay cut thankfull it is not leagly enforceable in Ireland and nobody is going to take it lying down even if the company goes bust !
If you want to sue HP as an employee, go for it. I did, after I left, and I got my $ back (well 75% of it) from what they had made me pay back to them in commissions, saying they had an error in their calculations. It's not hard to do. A labor attorney will draft the letter; just provide the documentation. You can email me at hplawsuit at yahoo dot com and I'll share the details.
What was mentioned by another reply was about OMEGA and employees having to pay back $. This is very true.....happened to me! And has happened to at least a dozen people I knew there. They actually ask, er I mean TAKE money back after the qtr is over, if you went over quota by too much (even though that means you brought in much more revenue!). Doesn't matter. HP has a budget for commissions; if they exceed it, they just take it back. You can say "oh c'mon, they can't do that". They do; I've been through it.
He is cutting salary and retrenching concurrently. Absolute evil and smart way to increase his 2009 bonus. Please learn from him.
Mark Hurd will drain all HP employees money. Destroy the R&D and eliminate any new development. Create smoke screen for investors that they will profit in 2009. Making them walk into the trap of HP an empty shell in 2011.
All the printers and inks manufacturing are moved to only 3 CMs - Foxconn, Jabil and Flextronic. The entire manufactuing HP employees will walk into histoy in 2010.
EDS and TSG services will be reduced to limited employees. Each working on 4-6 projects and can't able to deliver the product. As HP starts losing business, the share price drops badly.
Once all above is done, Mark Hurd will get billions US$ and he will let HP fails badly because will be an empty company. Then he will ask the Board to pay him hugh amount of money to make him leaves.
In 2012, HP is going to collapse. Share price will only worth US$1.05.
IBM and Canon will raise to the top together.
I was a 13 year employee in IT, recruited out of the university and had a very successful career -- if you judge successful as having promotions, high rankings, stock options, receiving the variable performance bonus, and surviving 9 or 10 cycles of WFR. I was laid off in Hurd's September blitz, my last day was at the end of January, however prior to that I should have seen the writing on the wall.
The last 5 years: 2 raises for a total of 1.5% (still all with high ranking), 2 bonuses, and although my 2008 FPR was stellar, and ranking was high it was implied off the record that I was cut from the bonus probably because I was on the WFR list.
It is sad to see a company steeped in a great legacy (prior to Fiorina and Hurd) now be completely devoid of the culture that Bill and Dave created. HP gave me a good career, but the company's culture has suffered and my courageous colleagues who still work for HP are forced to hang in there because the job market will not let them easily change companies.
I hope that there is a change at the top -- HP deserves better.
I hope the senior leadership can sleep at night covered by their fuzzy little blanket of the "Code of Ethics and Conduct" (the which we are currently all required to cozy up to with a "Jon Hoaky" course by June 2009). As far as I am concerned their "code of ethics" is trumped by what we see, not by what we read!
Funny... I think we can all see by example the ethical conduct in the examples of leadership: "Rob the employees so we can make our bonuses bigger and look good to all these greedy, money-grubbing shareholders who think profits turn on a dime!"
This is another example of corporate neo-feudalism at its finest! We are all peasants and the feudal lords like Mark Hurd, Ann Livermore, Joe Eazor (the new EDS Senior VP "Stooge") are all collecting their bonuses on the backs of the "grassroots" workers -- the ones who deliver and make the company successful! My performance ranking has been exceptional (exceeds expectations) for a number of years in this company and this is how you get rewarded for delivering to the customer?!?!?!
I'd like to see where this company would be if we all just walked tomorrow (I think that answer is pretty obvious). Perhaps, as employees of this company we should reciprocate by cutting our output in kind to match the cuts we have gotten from our employer. For EDS during the month of April we can all output 15% less in time and effort. Been putting off those appointments to the dentist, doctor, or waking up with the sniffles... hmmm, guess I'll be out-of-the-office today to take care of myself, maybe? Putting off those vacations and personal days? April's a good month to take some time off.
There are quiet, legitimate ways to balance the scales here folks without putting your jobs at risk.
I for one, started my own company and am working at building it up in my spare time while not fulfilling my indentured servitude at EDS/HP during the workday. Likely, somewhere in their "code of ethical jokes" I am sure it states that we're supposed to disclose this type of activity to our management, that is if we are engaged in an external, non-EDS/HP company, but in my estimation it is none of their business, especially considering how I am treated by them. My company is not competing with them for business anyway, so it is none of their business! I think it pays during these times to have another option in your hip pocket.
With all the economic ill-winds blowing and the corporate bail-outs, people everywhere are starting to see first-hand the corruption and excesses of corporate leadership and are becoming more and more intolerant of this type of behavior -- with the exploitation and oppression of the employees such as this company is now witnessing. Some corporations are getting too big for their britches and "cocky" thinking they can parade their success while kicking their employees in the pants who got them there. I think over the next several years we are going to see the little companies sprout up and start to devour the "sleeping giants" one nibble at a time until they are not as big as they thought. The brain trust they are pushing out of their companies will come back to haunt them later on.
Trust me, as my own company continues to grow I look forward to the day when I will walk out the doors of with 100% of my intellectual property now working independently for me and where the "corporate gluttons" managing the company can't rob me by gobbling up the rewards of my best efforts leaving me only with a few measly crumbs to subsist on.
As far as starting your own business is concerned, I did the same and have never looked back, although you take all the risk you also get the reward and that's the freedom from the type of servitude you mention.
Remember you sold 7.5 hours a day of your time to them, that's all, why on earth they've come to expect any more than that is anyone's guess, and why we do, or used to, give more of our time for free is seriously questionable too.
Will Hurd Prove His Leadership AFTER the down turn?
"Controlling The Damage at HP" - Business Week
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06...
Wall Street is happy about Hurd's cost cutting boost to profits however, they wonder if HP will have any real talent left to create new markets....good question. To my comrades prior statement about massive layoffs in his R&D area just recently.
The article reads...
"There's certainly more room for near-term growth in existing sectors. But at some point, HP will need to create major new markets, as well, to stay in Wall Street's good graces. Many insiders wonder if Hurd is up to that. Says one longtime HP manager: "I think the honeymoon will last another year, until the analysts start wondering where the new growth will come from."
· Where will it come from? Good question. It appears our tenured product development talent has been cut past the bone which leaves this question: How long can a newspaper burn in a fire? Not long - and that's what we're seeing in HP right now. Cost cutting is a flash in the pan and only goes so far unless you have real innovation product to offer the world when the burn is done. The foundation of HP is chipped beyond repair.
Good luck Hurd.
Any idiot can cut costs, the proof will be in HP's ability to create major new markets. That remains to be seen and I don't see anything on the horizon.
Whilst I think the articles sentiments were right, the mitigations were over two years ago.
I think the damage that has now been done means that HP will really struggle, if not crash and burn longer term.
Hurd's HP is focused on the closing bell at the NYSE tomorrow/next week. It suits a tech company but the approach is what has killed HPOS and is killing EDS. Services companies need to focus long term, they are long term slow changing income streams, think $B not $K.
Clients want quality service and that is going fast.
It is amazing to think he paid $13.9B for EDS a year ago - what is the asset really worth now?
EDS ANZ had to make these cuts because the forecasts were made when the AUD was 95 US Cents and now it is around 65-70 US cents. But you cannot change the forecast to Wall Street! (Might affect the EC bonuses!)
The madness is ongoing. I know before I left (mid March) that the next WFR round plans were already being made, the people making the decsions know the only way they can deliver to the clients is if they hire extra staff and now (early April) apparently Joe Eazor has annouced a hiring freeze. The deduction around that must be EDS corporate realise they wont make the double digit growth figures they have promised Wall Street. But stuff client delivery... the clients will take what they get.
On Day 1 new job I had an HP sales team in to sell me some services I know they are not able to do. I do not think they know how much I know... HP baiting is going to be a new sport and that is going to be fun...
However for my old friends and colleagues at EDS. Maintain your integrity but FLEEEEEEE ...
I'd love to hear from any CIO that's found themselves in that position with HP.
And why exactly are we pandering to Wall Street? How did the western world find itself on the brink of financial oblivion?
From Fortune Magazine:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/27/news/companies/...
Hurd said:
"I live by a code that I got taught very early in my career, that it's the company first, the employees second, and you're last," he says. "If that code gets inverted, it's not a good thing."
* Looks to me that what he really meant to say is: HURD is always first, company second, and who the heck cares about the employee's after that...Cut their pay - and then cut their position you good for nothing *?!!**!#!! wads.
Hurd said:
"Most HP workers, including Hurd, are taking a cut in base salaries.) "We think that eliminating talent and then quickly rehiring talent is an expensive and risky proposition," says Hurd, who doesn't rule out "workforce optimization" if the economy worsens but says he currently isn't planning any further job cuts."
* He's taking a pay cut - which doesn't mean anything - that's well established here.
* No plans to cut jobs - as Britney would say, "Ooops he did it again"...liar!
* What's this about not cutting talent and rehiring new people? What's happening in the US call centers? Hurd lied again.
Time for another tea party chaps.
Last week our management informed us that our level 1 support groups would be moving to a 'best shore' location of Panama. Probably hundreds of people here in Canada will lose their jobs in this transition.
Hurd said:
"My principles: Do it simple, and have accountability and responsibility," Hurd said in a 2005 presentation at the Stanford Graduate School of Business."
* He said pay cuts would stop the lay offs....he lied to us and the world.... Who’s holding him accountable?
Hurd said:
"Running a company like HP, which is so global and so diversified, is absolutely a team sport," Hurd said in an interview. "I'm very honored to receive the recognition, but it's about the people at HP driving this thing."
* This is not about HP people driving anything...it's about Hurd making HP look good on Wall Street by: cutting jobs, moving jobs to low cost countries, US state governments building HP call centers and paying HP management for each local they hire all within tax free zones, and HP seeing which employees will take the most beating before they are fired.
War is not an excuse to rape a city and it's women…just like tough times is not an excuse for HP to rape its employee's.
When will this stop?!
As for holding him accountable? Speak up, the internet is a free resource, blogs are simple to start and, as long as you stick to the facts, no one can stop you from writing your opinion. The facts speak for themselves, don't let this Guy get away with it, question everything, especially his integrity and the obvious contradictions between what he says and what he does.
There's no doubt in my mind that a CEO's role is an unenviable one, but there's no excuse for unscrupulous behavior, and CEO's world wide are proving themselves less than the pillars of society they like to think they are.
-Guy at the top cant make more than 5x what the guy at the bottom makes (base salary).
-Guy at the top can only have 100% of his salary as bonus (maybe 200, or some thresholding which allows it to change somewhere inbetween).
What does that do?
1) It ensures that even the guy at the bottom will be able to survive. If an executive wants a huge salary, no problem, just make sure every one else gets paid well too. In my scenario, if an executive wants to make $1M, then the guy at the bottom needs to be making $200K. Seems too high? Duh! Say the guy at the bottom is making $100K, then the guy at the top can only make $500K. With his bonus, he can make up to $1.5M which should be more than enough for total compensation for *ANY* body. It doesnt cost that much to have a nice lifestyle.
2) It ensures the shareholders will get a nice return on their investment because there will be no huge gutting of the profit to a select few in-duh-viduals. Therefore the performance numbers will be better (unless the company is truly failing in which case the guy at the top shouldnt be paid any bonus).
3) Improved benefits (or less eroding ones) because there won't be a huge gutting of the profits, thus the company can re-invest in itself and its employees.
It's really pretty simple. It's the employees (mostly at the bottom) that keep a business running, not the naive decision makers up top. If you just make decisions, you dont deserve to be the highest paid person in the company. The person that comes up with the patentable idea which the company implements and makes huge profits on, is the one who deserves the most. Further if your company posts a net loss of even .01 cent, then you as an executive don't deserve that fat bonus. Shareholders should recognize this.
Wall Street has done us all a huge favor in exposing the overpayment of executives. The governance of their salaries as a result of the bailouts will simply spread to other publicly held companies outside the financial market. This can only be a good thing.
Now, if your a privately held company and you want to pay your top dog $300M a year, knock yourself out.
As for everyone at EDS. Start looking for a new job now if you haven't already. Once this passes, management will likely think it's over, but any smart employee will realize the company cares nothing about them and should move on. That's right, carry the grudge. It's warranted! If you think this company cares about you, think again.
Shareholders will profit if share prices improve but why should anyone else profit form employees try to protect their jobs.
I have worked for Compaq / HP for 1.5 decades and my base salary is a complete joke.
With the current redundancy package on offer in the UK I would be glad if the axe fell....might be the kick up the rear end I need.
i'm in europe and there is a groundswell of opinion in the past weeks to refuse the pay cut. This is based overwhelmingly on Mark Hurd and the EC's greed - the penny is dropping across general, professional and now most interestingly management employees. It appears that there may be a massive rejection of the cut based on anecdotal evidence - make sure that all of you talk to your colleagues and explain why this is NOT a "pull together" scenario - it is a blow to self-esteem and personal worth to accept this insult from these loathsome gluttons. The time has come - ALL employees should be uniting now - and that includes managers. Rummage around there behind your torso - hey what's that? Wow it's a spine - I forgot I had one! Be a man(ager) - stand up for the dignity of those who have striven - stand together and weather this storm of avarice - you can change the world for your children in the coming decades - believe it. Quite simply, the tiny minority harvesting us like oxen must be resisted; the time is now, let it slip and you'll enslave the next generation to these latter-day Neros....
Not only are we taking a 5% pay cut in base salary, but for the month of April, EDS employees in the US and Puerto Rico are taking an additional 10%. So for April, 15% of our base salary will be cut.
Mark "Turd" and the rest of his corporate cronies are blinded by their own greed. If they want to cut costs, they should start with their own bloated paychecks. After that, stop sending jobs to lazy IT workers in other countries just because they are cheap. Guess what? My experience with EVERY "best-shoring" provider I've had the dis-pleasure of working with has been lousy. If your saving millions of dollars in IT salaries but losing billions in IT related disasters, how is that savings?
Something needs to be done. If good men do nothing, isn't that evil enough?
But just a little note: Doesn't anyone find it strange that female compensation are drastically lower than male counterpart?
I bet you it is the same throughout the company! Double unfairness...
It's real simple.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Does HP have an "Alliance" group who is speaking to the media?
***************
Lee Conrad, national coordinator of Alliance@IBM, has this to say about today's layoffs:
We are hearing of 4,000 to 5,000 IBM employees being terminated today.
* To employees: We need to organize to protect our own interests inside IBM. The executives look out for themselves and their families with no regard for ours.
* To IBM: Stop slashing jobs in the U.S. and stop shifting work offshore.
* To the Government: Do something about the loss of IT jobs, penalize companies that offshore work and fire U.S. workers. No tax breaks or stimulus money for companies that offshore.
In addition this occurred shortly after having been moved to our 3rd, yes count it, 3rd manager in less than 2 months. In my 10years at HP I've had probably 25 managers - typically the shaken birdcage syndrome occurrs every 12-15 months - some 'fly' away, where typically the upper management just lands on different perches.
I am happy to still be employed, however once again we are having yet the same discussion today with our new manager at our funnel, revenue, projects and time spent on them....wonder what this will lead to??? More WFR's? Well all I know is the remaining 3 of us have decided we will not go down and out without a fight.
Some of their findings herewith listed below only confirm to what extent HP is handing out paycuts:
1) About the Business Context:
Management has not shared with EWC members detailed figures on the business forecast for the coming quarters (Q2 to Q4). HPQ1 results show a decrease in revenue in some areas (mainly linked to Hardware selling) but also good progress in other key domains e.g. software and services. With almost 2 billions USD of profit with good margin, HPis not in a critical situation at the present time and in fact the company operates better than most of its competitors.
Management tried to justify the need for additional cash flow but did not indicate which level of cash flow is required and how it would be used,
2) About Total Rewards changes:
Management has only consulted EWC on two measures: voluntary pay cut and the discontinuation of contribution to the Shareholder Ownership Plan. In reality, employees throughout EMEA are discovering every day new cuts to their social benefits. The following list is just an example of the measures proposed by management and impacting employees in some/all countries (management wasn’t willing to give any detailed information) :
- No salary increase in FY09 where legally possible
- Suspension of e-award
- New lower pension plan for new employees
- Reduction of severance package
- Discontinuation of canteen contribution or reduced meal voucher value
- Reduction of healthcare e.g. health insurance allowance, life insurance,eye glasses, etc
- Reduction of coverage of first month of sickness from 100% to 75%
- Reduction of vacation scheme
- Reduction of carryover of unused vacation days to the next CY Vacation
- Reduction of vacation (23 days instead of 25 days for less than 15 years of service)
- Car allowance cut in services (Expert, Master, MGR1 and MGR2) savings in car area
- Etc.,
3) About the principles of the voluntary salary reduction:
Management has neither given EWC members target savings nor explained how the savings will be used (for example to grow the company and save jobs while job cuts are currently going on in different businesses).
Management has refused to make this measure temporary and lift it when the overall economic situation improves.
4) About the implementation of the voluntary salary reduction.
Management has committed that no employee will be individually threatened if they refuse to reduce their salary, in particular HPwill not layoff any employee because he has refused.
However, EWC members are worried about the mid or long-term consequences of a refusal and ask management to ensure employee do not suffer from pressure from their manager (managers must not ask employees why their refuse). EWC member also asks management to give them statistics in the next meetings about promotions, salary increase and bonus for population those who accepted and those who refused.
... For all these reasons, HPEWC and EDS EWC members clearly recommend that EMEA employees including managers to NOT accept the salary reduction.
Where was this published? Can you give a link?
"The EWC (European Works Council) just published their final findings of the meeting they had with senior management on 27 March 2009"
OH and todays latest news, our UK Gov Ministers have awarded themselves a 2.3% pay rise. Now I'm a UK tax payer, my HP UK Gov IT job along with 1000's of of others could end up in India or China any time soon. I am being asked to take a pay cut but my MP is on £65,000 per year plus £150,000 expenses and they are awarding themselves a rise in a recession! and to top it all HP just made over £1 Billion net profit. No point writing to my MP then!
If I was a shareholder I would be seriously questioning the value of my investment in HP.
The video cause me and my cube rat buddies laugh out loud. Over the past 3 years in HP IT we have forced on some very questionable data. Despite raising this matter, somehow senior manager types were only interested in seeing green (and I just do not Talkin 'bout the Benjamin's baby). The fact that our measurements were wrong fell on deaf ears. Our small part of IT was not alone with fiction to report.
I do not suggest Randy Mott knew this, but perhaps the large bonus dangled infront of his managers and their managers generated some behaviors which isn't that far removed from the behaviors of the bankers society find so greedy.
The integrity minute video was superb! alas, managers don't seem to care that much if you do complain. It’s better if you comply.
I am excited about the next video release.
The funny thing is they are now working to reduce contractors' pay even. I heard it is now 10%.
When the storm blows over, Mark will be left to blow himself so to speak.
I saw someone at work has printed out your great post and put it on the wall in one of our Dilbert-esque cube-farm-mazes. Genius! The word is getting out.
Ironic that since Hurd has gotten here, our cubes have shrunk and shrunk and shrunk down to little cages. We are truly now trapped in the rat race.
More ironic that us California voters just passed a law to be more humane to chickens in cages, meanwhile we're getting put into them ourselves.....
When you do sell something, it can be months before you get paid (while having to spend tons of time finding the order you received much later in the year). The OMEGA field sales compensation system is a joke! How can a company the size of HP get away with not paying their field sales people on time? Here it is almost 6 months into a year and we're just starting to bring the system up. They have been promising to fix this for years!!
We've had field sales people make their number in some rare cases early in the year, later to be reassigned to another group quota later in the year and compensation coming back stating that they now have a liability (been paid too much) as their new quota has been set. This and examples of reps landing big enterprise deals (which sales mgmt wants us to do) only to be told they don't qualify for the entire commission amount. Some have actually left and fought out of court (rumor has it) to get their money back. Heck, I've seen reps who were wfr'd been asked months later (after a customer returned a order) for commission money back. This kind of behavior would never had happened in the HP days of years past. Its just plum shameful on some of the tactics that go on.
Definition of Integrity: adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character (www.dictionary.com)
The events of our first HP Integrity Minute series entitled Program Performance, Honesty and Retaliation highlight the importance of our Open Door policy, and our shared values— trust, respect and teamwork—which serve as the foundation for HP’s culture of uncompromising integrity.
This is rich coming from HP management like Mark Hurd - he and his cronies are a disgrace to America and shape what the rest of the world thinks of America - so this certainly does not help. Time Obama gave Mark a rev up!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
Try going to your bank and saying, look I know that you and I agreed on a payment for the mortgage, but this month I am going to reduce what I pay you by 10%, otherwise my books don't look as good as I planned.
In other words, I won't pay my bills, if I don't feel like it.
Personally I think that being open and honest about who you are adds weight to the argument - but I'm no longer an HP employee so I don't care what Mark Hurd thinks - as far as I'm aware we're still entitled to express our opinions and have a right to free speech.
Anyway, any challenge to your opinion should be based on fact, especially if it ended up in court. The facts in my post speak for themselves.
Fair comment about EDS not making that much money and being leaderless. All that came about from a certain Dick Brown putting all his eggs in one basket and yes not listening to his staff - There are some similarities where HP is at now. How big will MH's golden parachute be?
EDS was not perfect, but it was always about getting stuff done; making a fair profit always seemed to come after. My feelings on joining HP is that this is a company with no soul.
And after all the pain of the pay-cuts Mark has money to buy half of Sun...It STINKS !!!!!!
HP hasn't released any new design breakthrus since Mark Hurd has come on board.
HP's customer satisfaction and market share has fallen since Mark Hurd has come on board.
HP's product quality has declined since Mark Hurd has come on board.
HP's employee morale has declined since Mark HUrd has come on board.
HP stock holders have received MINIMAL dividends since Mark Hurd has come on board.
So, can someone kindly explain to me why Mark Hurd gets paid so much in base pay & bonuses?
I'm really not an employee who is whining, I just feel that Mark Hurd is into his own salary & benefits and doesn't care about the long term of HP, doesn't care about he stock holder and certainly doesn't care about customer loyalty or employee retention.
Anyway despite the fact that everybody knows that Hp is only committed to making money for the directors and the shareholders in a short term strategy, with no absolute respect or commitments to the employees, and despite the benefits cut, pay cut, illegality of various operations, the lies told, the directors internal briefing sessions especially in Cupertino draw what appears to be a enormous Hp crowd with standing ovation for this people. I wonder if these people seen on the internal videos are indeed happy employees or actors brought in for the benefit of the directors' PR.
And more insane and inmoral if we consider that simple HP Employees (not directors, not managers, just Individual contributors and field employees) have more than 3 years with a salary freeze and a Job reclasification two years ago where all the employees was downgraded to a lower salary band in the name of a company re-structure and gain of market, but today all of this was worth to increase the bonus of our senior directors.
1)Trust and respect for individuals
'We work together to create a culture of inclusion built on trust, respect and dignity for all.' Do Mark and Co. really have great respect for individual contributors?
2)Speed and agility
'We are resourceful and adaptable, and we achieve results faster than our competitors.' How are we going to compete and where is our resources when we have laid off after laid off?
3)Uncompromising integrity
'We are open, honest and direct in our dealings.' I rest my case......
The top three Google bosses - CEO Eric Schmidt and founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin - took home just a $1 salary each last year.
As has been the case since the company went public in 2004, the trio drew just a dollar each from the coffers of the search engine giant, according to regulatory docs filed in the States.
"Eric, Larry and Sergey have voluntarily elected to receive only nominal cash compensation. Their primary compensation continues to come from returns on their ownership stakes in Google", the company stated in its proxy statement to the SEC.
"As significant stockholders, their personal wealth is tied directly to sustained stock price appreciation and performance, which provides direct alignment with stockholder interests".
Steve Jobs, the Apple CEO is also famous for only getting an annual salary of $1. In comparison Steve Ballmer got $1.4 million while HP boss Mark Hurd pocketed $34 million.
As a company, Google reported revenue of $21.8 billion, a gain of 31% over the previous year while net income grew 0.5% to $4.23 billion, up from $4.2 billion in 2007.
Answer: No. Those targets have never been adjusted in the past.
Follow up: When have salaries been mass reduced in the past?
(crickets chirping)
Mass reducing salaries is a dangerous precedent.
What they have done is make your salary variable at whim. Any time that the numbers (which are always a stretch) are at risk for the quarter they can now cut your salary.
Say no.
At the very least it's dishonest.
It is the easiest way to make money. No need for new technology, new product, no R&D or anyting. Just an email memo will do...
The >300,000 angry employees are telling their friends and families about how Bad HP is like. Each employee saying to ~20 pax. That makes 6 millions pax aware of it and knowing unhappy employees will produce lousy produce/services... The impact of this will spread pretty fast. Based on my calculation of HP employee networking, in 3mths at least 10billions pax will know of it. Result is not buying HP product/services and purchase IBM and Toshiba laptop, Canon and Dell printers....
HP Stocks is likely to drop to $18.
You have hit spot on.. like you said... the employees are the time bomb which have started to tick... lets see how far this gets too... Mark should get an average employees salary and try to live in that for just 1 month.. without his benefits.. than hope he will rephrase his unacceptable explanation and ideas of the new way to tackle the recession.... we shead our blood day and night to allow him have his finest wine on the companies private Jet... Well Done Mr Mark... remember.. without the employees.. HP is back to the wooden garage....
If I was working for GM, Chrysler, Citigroup, or any other company losing money I could swallow this pay cut. This just hurts. Especially when you're billable and the rate I'm being charged out at keeps going up.
Time has a section for guest editorials/essays - why don't you submit yours as an essay on examples of greedy CEO's and how they are hurting America?
By the way, for those who will be WFR notified in this on-going process, don't count on finding another position within HP before your termination day. What they told you about priority hiring is just plain lie. Before my termination, I actually had two job offers from other divisions within HP, but couldn't pass the management scrutiny as their job was to control the headcount. Once you are on WFR list, it's a death sentence. Don't waste your time looking inside. It's time to move on!
"Just ask the former Compaq employees what HP did to them when they realigned their jobs."
Beg to differ. I had a 63 (HP) job code before the merger with Compaq.That was the highest individual contributor job scope. I was on the lower end of the band, so I had enormous potential for raises. After the merger they screwed around with the scopes and adjusted them "to the industry standard" Haven't seen a raise since.
You make a strong case for rejecting the paycut! I'm sure all senior executives will find merit in your argument.
With your polished executive linguistic skills I think you should be writing speeches for Hurd.
Keep on making me laugh and bringing a little levity to my day :)
hp is not hp anymore.. it is only the memories of those great days that is left now..
with majority of the people retrenched and demoralized, hp is like a huge tree being uprooted soley because of the selfishness of a minority who calls themselves as managers..
hope your blog will serve as an eye opener to the mad heads at the top..
the golden days in hp will always be missed:(
Its like having a gold ribbon rose but just befor judging you cut 10% of the roots off. The rose starts to starve and the flower starts to die and still they are not happy. Cut more roots, but leave the leaves and the dead wood to take any remaining food away from the flower. Then after neglect they realise the mistake and trim the top but the damage has been done. The gold medal rose will never bloom like it did again.
Mark I dont know how you can sleep at night, when you destroy so many lives just to keep your millions and your status by inflating the stock price and cuts. I hope that you never expirence the hardship you inflict from your golden office, as you will not survive.
Remember you sow what you reap!
@: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/intel_p...
What doesn't seem to have been announced is the EXTRA 10% that is coming out of EDS employees' pockets in April.
Yep. Just before the 5% cut went into effect, the EDS division announced that the current economic environment is forcing them to "temporarily" cut and ADDITIONAL 10% from our pay.
They say it is only for April. We'll see what sort of excuse they will give on April 29 about why they will have to make that permanent. I would bet on it but I can't afford to bet anymore.
I am anxious for the pending realignment where the EDS jobs will be adjusted to fit with the HP job codes. I can only wonder how much MORE we will lose. Just ask the former Compaq employees what HP did to them when they realigned their jobs.
As many others have said I used to be proud to work for this company. Even got all my family members to buy HP products. But since Hurd took over the way this company treats it employees has gone down the toilet! There is no HP way anymore! Reductions in 401k matching, severance packages, benefits, raises, bonuses, etc. All to the bare minimiums required by law. I couldn't even tell you the last time I had a raise, but it was at least 3 years ago. It is really quite pathetic! Everyone I know who works here is barely making it from one paycheck to the next!
Not to mention that their whole WFR process of trying to find another position within HP is a total JOKE!!! The only positions out there are in Argentina, Costa Rica, Guadaljara, or New Mexico. We have perfectly good facilities in Colorado (already paid for!), but oh no we need to build a new multi million dollar facility in New Mexico & force all the employees to move there or lose their jobs.
Oh well I'm on to bigger & better things. I'm free to go out & find a company who actually appreciates their employees, wow what a novel concept!
If the company was in trouble instead of making $1.8B the first quarter I truly would understand the cuts.
we need this as a national issue!!
Executives across this country are being rewarded for bad behavior, unethical business transactions and illegal matters...if the government condones it, then I guess that is why all of these corporations are following suit, but when is it going to stop?!
I probably could write another article but I'm not really intending to get into singling out corporations. Mine is just one voice, and I was very familiar with HP. I would suggest that the more people who take advantage of the viral nature of internet free press like blogs etc. the more published opinion we see when these CEO's behave in this way, then the more we will call them to task for their actions and influence change.
EDS used to be a "people" company, but they can't be a people company when they continue to just piss the company money away giving it to people like Ritmeyer, who by the way, came to EDS with the sole purpose of selling us to HP. Now that he has, look at us now. Holy crap !!
EDS continues to sell contracts, but yet we are still hurting and it's never going to be enough to keep HP from going belly up.
Ross Perot should still be CEO of EDS. He's a very smart man and I think he would have kept EDS from getting to the position it is today.
Anybody else who is in should also reply to show their support of solidarity!
Unfortunetly I've ended up an HP employee,through no fault of mine, but for who knows how long. I am transitioned from EDS with over 20yrs of service, too old to look for another job and be accepted, even if there was one. we at EDS had to sit back while they hired this ousider to sell us out to the highest bidder and pay him millions to do so.. then they announced there would be no pay increases or bonuses, which we never got anyway. Now the Sheep hurder is reducing our salaries and to further insult us is taking another 10% in May and I believe just using the times for an excuse..
I worked at EDs when it was like a family and I enjoyed coming to work. We can sit here and give all the comments in the world, but they are just words. Enough people have had enough. I'm tired of talking to overpaid non-caring executives...I'm just glad I have a job??
For all those who asked about the 'consent' - this is only in few countries where the unions are strong (not the US), and as an explanatory note - ' your manager will discuss this with you in case you do not consent' meaning be ready for a reprimand and a firing from your role without severance benefits in a time frame sooner than you can imagine... and oh yes, btw, we have decided to limit the severance benefits too, so that we can afford to pay the EC and Mark.... Great way to go, HP... I just hope enough HPites read this blog of yours, and get the right perspective.
then I worked for Dick (Brown),
along came the traitor (Jordan)
and now I work for Turd (oh well, it rolls down hill nicely)
Wow that Mark is drunk on the Company Koolaid and extremely dense if he thinks for one minute that Hurd has any interest in saving jobs.
From my prespective working in services it seems the HP way is to screw the front line technical staff while heavily rewarding the upper management ranks (ie Employees on the Pay for Performance plan). It just seems to me that technical staff are not really valued (just grunts at the bottom of the HP food chain). There is no succession planning for technical staff in services at HP and In my opinion it is a dead end job at HP.
As committed I am now providing further detail on the salary reduction programme.
On behalf of my family(INC), I have no plans to accept a pay cut in FY09. Rest assured that my family(INC) review our income and spend in line with the market on an annual basis and while we have no plans to reduce our income in FY09, the request will be reconsidered in FY10.
The increasingly challenging ecomony means that my family(INC) must aggressively manage all aspects of our income and spend. We recognise that our decision will appear contrarty to team spirity, but we need to make tough decisions now to build strength through a difficult economy and make the changes that will facilitate a world class family cost structure.
The math is pretty straight forward. From a mortgage standpoint, you’re supposed to be able to pay it with some left over to provide basis needs and maybe some luxiries. With an increasing cost of living that HP haven't met in 5 year, my family(INC) is now substanially exposed to the sub-prime salary market. You can do the calculation, as easy as I can. My family need every penny to makes ends meet, with family income down roughtly 50% in FY09, and an environment that may not get any better in 2009
So we are going to take action by not accepting the pay cut, but my family(INC) appreciate the kind offer. We have decided to further variablize our cost structure by electing to maintain my base pay while you erode other benefits such as my pension and my car allowance.
This does not change my 'do as little as possible to keep my job mentality' at HP. If I outperform, and there is a chance I will, then I will expect the usual < 1% in variable pay bonuses. In fact, the financial flexibility I'm gaining through not accepting the pay cut helps keep me in a better position to compete and to win in the mortgage marketplace, and fund the family(INC) mortgage program this year based on non-adjusted salaries. I can't promise you anything, but I tell you...there is a chance I might keep my home...if I get this right.
I am sure you will have questions regarding this decision and urge you to aquaint yourseft with how the majority of people in the real world live from day to day, which should answer many of them.
Thank you for your continued support as we go through this difficult period of transition.
Gentle Ben
There is no "conspiracy" here - it is blatently obvious as the posts describe.
An absurdly rich tiny % of the population is making a laugh of the vast majority, sad but true. The real irony is that at least 20% of the majority 99% is far more intellligent than Hurd - most of his ascent has been ivy league breeding (and associated contacts) with a fair measure of animal cunning to "make the deal". I am SO sick of his stupid f*%&ing flipcharts illustrating his simplistic points. Yes Mark I see that you are stating the bloody obvious - if you put aside innovation, R&D, employee satisfaction, decency, social responsibility, vision, personal greed and avarice IT REALLY IS JUST "INVENTORY IS TOO HIGH, EMPLOYEES COST TOO MUCH, WE'RE NOT USING OUR CAPITAL, BLAH, BLAH, GOT TO GO NOW AND STUFF MY FACE INTO A TROUGH OF CAVIAR JUST TO FEEL "HUMAN" ETC ETC ETC). Sorry Mark but you make a normal, high-IQ professional feel sick. Your mother would be proud I'm sure......
just after I posted this I received a note from a co-worker that one of the guys he works with got WFR'd...not part of the 24600 EDS layoffs. It's happening all over the place now. Pathetic how Turd tries to project himself as the knight in shining armor to the media, by suggesting he's using paycuts rather than layoffs, when in truth he's doing both, while pocketing millions.
Steve Jobs - Apple - $1.00
Steve Ballmer - Microsoft - $1.4 Million
Michael Dell - Dell - $2 Million
John Thomposn - Symantec - $2.2 Million
Edgar Masri - ex 3com - $2.7 Million
Matthew Szulik - Ex Red Hat - $5.2M
Robert Mao - 3Com - $6.1M
Dan Warmenhoven - NetApp - $6.1M
Jim Whitehurst - Red Hat $6.2M
Ron Hovsepian - Novell - $6.9m
John Swainson - CA - $8.4M
Jonathan Schwartz - Sun - $11.1M
Robert Beauchamp - BMC - $11.3M
Edward Mueller - Qwest Comms - $11.3M
Joe Tucci - EMC - $11.7M
John Chambers - Cisco - $12.3M
Randall Stephenson - AT&T - $15m
Ivan Seidenberg - Verizon - $20.2M
Sam Palmisano - IBM - $20.96M
Greg Brown - co CEO Motorola - $24.2M
Mark Hurd - HP - $34M
Larry Ellison - Oracle - $84.6M
Sanjay Jha - Co-CEO Motorola - $104.4M
http://mark.kolich.com/2009/02/hps-pay-cuts-a-h...
It's an unfortunate opinion but one he's entitled to.
The sad thing is that he's bought in completely to the idea that this is saving 20,000 jobs. The evidence will show this not to be the case, the jobs have been and are going as we speak.
1. Thanks Mate(for the @)
2. I am reliably informed that we (EDS at least) are currently in the second tranch of WFR's. The BIG push to remove the 24,000 will occur in Q3 ...... this is already PLANNED and the PayCuts will do NOTHING to stop them.
3. You realise, that when performing a company takeover, ALL COSTS related to the transition of the two companies (including redundancy packages etc etc) are TAX DEDUCTABLE
4. This is why they will complete the WFR's just before End of financial Year.
Why? Well... a significant shift away from the employee as individual and a move to pure fiscal measure, cost cutting, greater workload etc. Actually, there's probably scope for some of this in a company the size of HP (and arguably need for it, but for gawd's sake, take your employees with you, but I felt it wasn't being well handled and was driving hitherto loyal employees to distraction.
The main issue I felt was that the CEO has got the 'slash costs' bug (after all, that was probably what got him the job in the first place) and this was merely accelerating to the point where employees got spooked for what would come next. Personally I felt that being WFR'd would be a good thing. When it gets to that point, a loyal (25 years service) employee, with a history of good reviews, strong commitment and willing to go the extra mile because of a sense of duty and happy to do so...then this all adds up to - RUN AWAY FAST!
And yes, there are other 'stakeholders' - the owners, the share owners - who also need to be listened to. After all, without them, the company is in deeper sh*t. Problem is that the triumvirate of BUSINESS - EMPLOYEES - OWNERS are no longer aligned and that creates tension. It's the responsibility of the leaders in the company to pull this together. By leaders I mean not just the board but those employees who could take alead in the interests of all. These people are needed if what I read is at all representative. Make a noise. But make it constructive. Bitching, although satisfying, is ineffective and ignorable. You need compelling, cogent, passionate, self-disinterested argument. Do it!
So, I'm sorry if these comments truly reflect sentiment inside HP. I'm sorry for the good good staff I know and worked with. I'm sorry for the company and where it's headed. I'm happy I'm not there any more. And I'm sorry it came to that.
* sigh *
Is this what we all have to look forward to in the IT space? Why not lower the compensation packages of the top guns and leave the folks on the street alone. The CEo's and upper management should know in this economy the se's and sales teams are having a very hard time even making a quota...so they make out and give us a pay cut from both sides...its ridiculous.
HP posted Q1 09 profits of $1.85BN
Mark Hurd took $42m in 2008
His salary reduction of 20% represents less than 1% of his full package
The HP Board took over $140m in total in 2008
Honda, Land Rover, Toyota, JCB etc have all asked for pay cuts from staff to SAVE the business not to allow them to post double digit profits but to simply survive. Holden management took cuts in salary and bonus but left the workers alone. They are true leaders.
I feel for US staff, 5% permanent cut + 10% extra in April imposed, but that does not mean that we in EMEA or APJ have to roll over and give in to this obvious opportunism. It is not our fault that you have such a Feudal economy. You need to grow a spine and demand rights. Do not buy the inevitable spin that non US workers are putting an unfair burden on you by refusing to take a cut. Remeber who is picking your pockets - it isn't us.
EDS/HP staff have been offered nothing - no date for reinstatement, no guaranteed bonus, no decrease in hours. I, and a lot of my colleagues, will be saying NO to this. I prefer to take the chance of CR than lose my self respect and cave in to this immoral plan.
We'll all be earning what Hurd wants us to earn in 3 years whether we take a cut or not. Wy make it any easier easy for him but giving money up now?
If HP were on eth verge of bankruptcy I might feel different, but until then my answer is "NO!"
I'm in the lucky position that I can afford to take a significant pay cut, but no amount of money would keep me at HP (been at EDS for 15 years).
All careers are on hold (new senior appointments don't come from within the company), training is cancelled - employees don't get a say in anything.
Ive racked my brains about why they are doing this and the only conclusion I can come to is that it is ultimately down to the political views of our neo-con board. Our way or the highway vs the intelligent approach.
One final point. Joe Eazors point that EDS needed HP is bull. EDS was losing market share because our senior execs were concentrating on selling EDS and not on business as usual.
HP is a company of lies within lies.
>>Why is everybody so mad at HP when the
>>total world is in severe economic distress?
Because senior management perpetuate a myth that we're all in this together, yet they've created a them & us state. They really don't care that much about employees.
Highly interesting that:
a) Higher managers are on Pay For Performance (PFR) which pays out far higher than Variable Performance Bonus (VPB), which your average HP'er gets (including high performers).
b) You're encouraged to try and maintain worklife balance, BUT left under no illusion that you have to meet that deadline or you'll either not make your bonus or be looking at an i rating (the kiss of death).
c) in these challenging economic times we must stand by and watch our colleagues have to rellocate to Texas or leave (in the USA, it's voluntary severance because you didn't decide to move to Texas... even if the reason you didn't move was because you could sell your house or your partner couldn't move. HP - Destroying Families! HP - Kicking employees when they're down.
HP now operates a culture of fear where employee's have no voice. Even in a recent VoW (Voice of the workforce) meeting, my mgmt peers were trying to figure out who was complaining so they could weed them out as being a negative drain on others. VoW is such a joke.
>>Do you not have any concern for the shareholders,
>>included retired employees, who have invested their
>>retirement funds in HP stock?
Duh! We'd likely all be quite happy with taking one for the team, if we weren't the only people taking it. HP has become WalMart. It's no longer an ethical investment, it's a white-collar sweatshop!!
If it's short-termism you're after, Hurd's your man. Long term - HP's being damaged beyond belief. I'm switching my HP stock to a better longer term bet.
Seriously! greedy employees! HP is a living hell... the senior management are making $$$ hand over fist.
>>Get a grip on the new reality. You are acting like spoiled
>>children with a feeling of entitlement. 30
>>years ago HPs believed in shared sacrifice.
>>Do you think Hurd is going to get a $40M+ bonus in 2009?
No, but I bet his bonus (and that of others) is still considerable. Wouldn't it have been fairer to cut bonuses before base pay. Ordinary employees rely on base pay to make ends meet and to obtain little luxuries like the effing MORTGAGE! I'd personally prefer a WFR than this.
So, before you get on your high horse, think what it's like working in a culture of fear, having your benefits eroded to such an extent that you are close to having to leave at exactly the same time that so few are hiring...oh and that you'll be kissing your pension goodbye. And for what!?!?! so some nickle & dime'er can make a few more millions. Yeah- that's fair.
He/She wrote:
"Get a grip on the new reality. You are acting like spoiled children with a feeling of entitlement. 30 years ago HPs believed in shared sacrifice.
Do you think Hurd is going to get a $40M+ bonus in 2009?"
Are you that naive?
The "cooking" of the books for April (further 10% reduction)should have sent a couple of synapses firing no?
The directors will be on a quarter on quarter, profit margin target. If they achieve this target each month, they will receive their bonuses alright.
Are you SOOO thick that you don't realise that if a CEO knocks an average of 5% off the bottom line = $1BUSD to $2BUSD, that he won't get a bonus for that.
What a FOOL ........... he is taking money out of the pockets of people who have to budget just to pay the bills to keep their family fed, clothed and sheltered, and then putting it into HIS OWN GREEDY pockets.
Wake up!
Funny, the company can make a profit, but we are in such "bad" shape, that people like me now need to skip mortgage payments for a month so the upper management can save their Bentley's and vacation homes!!!! total BS - I say unionize HP and every employee of the entire company walk out for just one week - How would you like that Mr. Hurd!!
just want to inform you, that last Friday came a email from the German Management Board:
Dear employees, sorry to say, but the plan from Mark is the right one. You all sent us some good suggestions how we in germany can deal with the crisis, but nothing of them help us truly.
The German board are only assistants from Mark.
Everything what I can say: "Happy Easter" for all HP emplo. worldwide....
I just want to fix a mistake said in message from "Hi ho" on march 6th who mentionned: "In fact in France they have to get a mandatory annual pay increase to match inflation."
This statement is wrong there is no mandatory annual pay increase to match inflation, I wish there was some. In fact, since the late 70's, it is even against the law to link the salary increase to inflation.
At HP in France it is the same "pay for performance" corporate policy that applies, there is no company wide salary increases and I know people who had no salary increases for several years.
I still agree with what you said, all employees need to get organized and unionized if they want this to change...! Having unions is just not enough, unions need to be strong. It takes a majority of employees to take a membership and to take actions when necessary.
Here are the things I have lost in these 10 years:
1. Pension plan disbanded.
2. Healthcare benefits lowered at high costs
3. Stock program used to be buy 2 shares and HP gave 1 share- a 50% discount. Then it moved to a 15% discount on the lowest offering price over a 2 year period. They a 15% discount at the end of 6 months. Now it is completely gone.
4. My oncall pay was lowered from 15% to 7.5% to now 3%- and I don't have the option to opt out.
5. 401K matching reduced to 4%.
6. I used to get stock options but none for the last 5 years.
7. K rated 6 out of 10 years and a total of 3% raises over the past 5 years. Not a penny in the past 3.
8. New 5% pay cut
9. New 10% pay cut in April
10. No team building activities in years. Reorgs have completely cut off my job role from peers.
11. Pay for our own phone service to telecommute full time.
12. Working on a 3 year old laptop that constantly crashes. I lose at least an hour a day of productivity. I asked for an early refresh but was declined due to "cost-reductions"
Meanwhile, I moved to Houston in 2003 when HP purchased Compaq. I did this for HP and for my career. Little did I know that the next 6 years would be a complete waste. In 2004, I had my first child and in 2006, my second and final. We now suffer as a family and if I had known the cutbacks to come, I would not have had children as I honestly can't afford them. Things are tighter than ever and every month I am falling deeper in debt.
Last year, I spent 35% of my time traveling overseas to a customer location. Over 500 hours with my 6'4" frame shoved into economy class air. I averaged 13 hours a day, 7 days a week. My 2 year old forgot who his father was : ( My 4 year old drifted further away from me. All the while, I was telling myself how all the extra work and travel would be rewarded.
Last July, I had a job offer from another company for about 30% more compensation. I ended up declining the offer as HP management promised to do something to bring my salary to a competitive range. They didn't want to lose this K employee. Around September, my job was reclassified to a higher level- "great", I thought, they are getting ready to up my salary.
Well, my salary never went higher and with these 2 new pay cuts, I am now working for 51% less than my mid point pay band. I am 1 payment away from losing my home and my morale is gone. My teams' morale is gone and the customer is suffering. This account was profitable... No more 13-20 hour days for me. My family is finally getting their daddy back. Too bad my mood is so depressed.
Of course, I am leaving HP. As soon as possible in fact and I will most likely take my skills to a competitor in IT.
Cindy,
I would tend to agree with you for the most part. People will express their frustrations anonymously to protect themselves, and never act on what they say. We will express our true feelings and opinions in an environment that protects us hopefully) from any chance of corporate (HP/EDS) retaliation.
To say the employees are "spineless" is a bit of reach.(and I truly believe you've said that out of frustration) Most employees have families, homes, children, and so forth that are their FIRST priority. Keeping one's job to support their family is paramount. No one "wants" to lose their job in times like these, but there are many that are willing to make the attempt to be heard.
Most people only have anywhere from 3 - 6 months of savings available to them if they were to lose their job, and the prospects of gaining employment (within 80% of current salary) within 6 months is less than 5%.
We all should fully understand that upper management within HP/EDS and the other companies swallowed by HP are aware of this blog and do read it. I know this as a fact because the link to this blog was sent to me by an upper level director within EDS.
Now, do they care? Probably not. I would think some of the upper management have opinions that differ from Mark's on how things should have/should be handled. I also think they aren't stupid enough to contest him. There is turmoil within HP/EDS, and it grows day by day. I spoke to one of my ex co-workers yesterday, and more layoffs are coming in the weeks ahead. This is on top of the 5% cut in pay, and the additional "temporary" 10% cut in pay for the EDS division.
These actions have caused morale to drop to an all time low not only within EDS, but within HP proper as employees see their co-workers hit in the weekly WFR raids. NO job is safe any more. NO employee feels safe or comfortable within this company.
Now to my point.
You say no one will stand up...fight the fight...make the effort. ONE person isn't going to make a difference...I agree with that 100%. But...there are ways for the people to be heard. Not (initially) by Mark and company, but by addressing YOUR state political representatives. I have been an avid investor in the stock market for many, many years. I recently sent an email to my political representatives (Texas) expressing my disfavor of a proposed tax on stock purchase. When I sent the emails (through a website) I found that they are sent by keying off one's postal zip code.
This website, which I will post, has a subject matter letter to send. This letter can be edited, completely deleted, completely replaced, modified, PERSONALIZED....I'm sure you get the idea.
I sent an edited version of the letter, and later received conformation of delivery to Senator John Cornyn.
The fluorescent light went on in my head (thinking energy conservation) and I decided to send Damian's blog post and web address suggesting they read the comments sections to see what the REAL people think. Now, I'm just one little mosquito buzzing around that is a small, and most likely inconsequential irritant.
But...what if hundreds of current/past employees did the same. There is power in numbers....There are approx. 700 posts in response to Damian's blog so far, and I would imagine there will be a lot more. I think it's time to do exactly what you correctly stated that we AREN'T doing. Lets be heard...or at least make the effort to be heard.
Here is the link to the website
http://www.rallycongress.com/no2tradertax/1536/
Here are some links to all state political representatives which include websites, email, and some phone numbers.
http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-em...
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_informati...
http://www.conservativeusa.org/mega-cong.htm
everyone should watch this youtube video (from the movie Network) and think about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
It has gotten way to stressful since the take over
The employee morale is at an all time low
Mark, you will be able to hear the sucking sound when an if the economy ever imporoves as employees walk out the door and to other organizations who will apprecaite their efforts. Butt then again you will probably not hear the sound from the Company Jet as you drink your martini fyling friends, family to pointless vacations waisting EDS - An HP Companys money and driving us all into the ground with your cigar shoved up your ass..... Cocktails anyone?
Is the client paying less for their service?
Why should we employees be taking a cut, when the bill sent to the client is no different (or in many cases has increased). This sort of attitude (Mark Hurd's) will see outsourcing in general take a big hit - if the market forces employee pays down, while client bills increase, companies will increasingly see the value in in-sourcing much of their IT (as much as they can). Government departments (who are big clients to most outsourcing companies) will realise that it makes sense to source Government IT as a whole to save costs, rather than outsource specific tasks for each department.
Already, the Gerschon Report is causing large business and especially Government Departments to rethink their IT strategy, and whether they really need to outsource as much as they do. When they see that they are screwed by companies like HP/EDS with higher bills despite lower operating costs, they will try to take back much of their IT. Many of them suffer when employee's suffer, as experts who have specialised knowledge of their systems move on because of pay cuts - or as employees who become increasingly disenchanted become lazy, and (in extreme cases) start doing malicious damage. It doesn't matter that Hp/EDS can sue the employee, the potential damage to a system can forever destroy their relationship with that client.
Look after your people! Outsourcing is only worth it when the clients can see a clear (usually financial) gain in using the contractor. Already companies are realising that outsourcing measures taken in the past may have been a little extreme. It is dangerous for outsourcing companies to be upsetting clients at this time - and this is exactly what HP is ultimately doing.
"It is time for all management across all large corps. to stand up to shareholders"
Try to keep in mind that 'management' are employees as well.
As a shareholder, there is no need to stand up to me .... the ethical investment principles I agreed to operate under obliges me to sell out of HP.
"Superannuation and investment funds are major shareholders who pressure companies to produce profits"
In other words the people who manage and invest your money. Sadly most people fail to realise the major motivation of these people is to "meet their target" so they gain that next bonus not to take the best care of your money.
"The incentive driving CEOs and senior execs is to continuously cut costs and increase profits"
There are three main ways to do this. Either you grow the business which takes real executive effort and hopefully lowers the average cost, run as lean and efficient as possible (think of the executive jet) or you slash and burn. When i was starting out we called these the Japanese, Scandinavian and American styles
More important is that on the EDS contract, we are not entitled to the "pay-for-performance strategy at HP". By giving up 5% of our salary (optional), we help increase the HP profit, and allow Mark to make up the his pay cut with a bigger bonus. Does not seem equitable.
I think I might take Mark's email, rewrite, and publish it as a petition on the UK Government web site. I will ask all UK Members of Parliament to take a pay cut of 5%, and Government Ministers to take a pay cut of 10%, and for Gordon Brown (Prime Minister) to take a 20% pay cut. Wow, this is going to be fun.
Something smells funny indeed.
We all have to take responsibility for allowing this kind of behavior to become the norm.
Stockholders, employees, management - all of us. Every time we allow these corporate types ( and let's be honest - it is a type) to undermine, lie, patronise and manipulate us, a small piece of our own humanity becomes compromised and runs the risk of dying.
One of my biggest frustrations during the long period of economic expansion the world enjoyed was that every day workers were becoming complicit and even instrumental in throwing away hundreds of years of progress of working people. It happens subtly when terms like "personnel" becomes "human resources"
Ok - off my soapbox - its your blog bro
Everyone has been SERIOUSLY demotivated since the takeover was announced and it's getting worse by the day. All we see is redundancies (none on the HP side being visible), followed by the one part of the business that DID make a profit being told "take a paycut or else".
It's only flagged as "optional" for legal reasons - we all know if you don't accept it it CAN be enforced through the backdoor and people will be blacklisted (wait for the next quarter's figures and you'll see more redundancies to get rid of the troublemakers).
What happens next quarter? Make a profit another pay cut? Make less or no profit a larger paycut/ redundancies? Then the next quarter what happens?
If we didn't make a profit I could understand action being needed. But when we DID make a profit it's just all smoke and mirrors like you say. If I had an out and could get a another job I would - but these are unprecedented times - something that management seem to fail to realise and seem intent on looking after their own rather than the company as a whole.
After reviewing the details my mind is very clear on not taking the 5% pay cut, as I am an Aust employee with a "choice". My workload hasn't reduced 5%, instead with the latest job cuts, it has increased 25% and with the scheduled next round of redundancies I can only anticipate it getting worse. If the failure to take the pay cut puts me at the top of the list for redundancy, so be it.
As an Infrastructure Architect I will certainly not ever recommend HP hardware to my clients again what ever the size of the organisation. I'm hopeful with the thousands of HP/EDS employees being trampled to artificially inflate a stock price, this trend will gain momentum.
As Damian mentioned, people power will make or break this company.
As the wife of a HP (ex EDS) employee, with a newborn daughter, this request of HP for their employees to take a 5% decrease made me anxious. Now after reading your blog and seeing so many zeroes in the CEO's total remuneration, I've gone from anxious to angry.
On a very regular basis (and much to my chagrin) my husband works til very late in the night and recently for 48 hours straight without any further remuneration - bar a paltry 'on-call allowance'.
I hope Mr Hurd reads this and tries to understand what real workers do to earn their pay. How about some recognition...? How about a freaking Xmas Party (betcha the board had a gathering?)
Wonder when they will be told that the minute they move from AVIVA to HP they will be taking a 5% pay cut. Welcome aboard guys and gals.
Watch the space next year as we start to fail to meet SLAs due to demotivated over worked, under paid staff. Even the unions are talking about a work to rule. So I would pull my shares out while the going is good.
It's not the Shareholders that need standing up to, it is the CEO and Board of Directors (the latter of which is supposed to represent the shareholders but in reality act more as an "old boys club").
Instead with the forced redundancies, workloads have increased almost to breaking point, and to thank there employees for the added stress and effort, they take 5% of our total wage.
Last year I worked on a project that won a significant contract that would annually pay for Mr Hurds total renumeration. I and my counterparts for our effort and long hours, were to receive pay increases of 15%, this was submitted but rejected under the new policy of "no pay increases in this economic climate". Now under the HP banner, no pay rise, no thanks, nothing, not even a Xmas party! Just the potential to get fired or have my salary garnished. I took a pay cut when I joined EDS as I was previously a contractor, in my thinking the pay cut would translate to job security. Wow was I wrong!
I can't believe the gall of HP, asking employees to take a voluntary pay cut and telling them that:
- It doesn't guarantee that they won't be sacked or made redundant.
- It doesn't mean that when the next round of pay rises is implemented you will get a pay rise.
EDS employees have been 'asked' to take pay cuts - only because the labor laws in Australia are stringent and (while they're not perfect) they do a lot more to protect the rights of employees.
Further, they're environmentally unsound, blatantly sexually discriminatory
, and it always feels like the middle management are here specifically to screw EDS' employees into the ground.
The leaders of HP - &, ergo, EDS - are a bunch of money grubbing scum-bags.
I can't wait to get another job & leave EDS... & I've only been here for a few months!
As an HP/EDS employee, I would like to mention that we've been advised that the salary cut is 'optional'. Yes, by this I mean we have a 'choice' to take the cut or not, but at what price? Does this mean we're black listed as a potential candidate to be kicked out the door? I think this is one way for them to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Who in their right mind, in these financial hard times would ANYONE in the HP company opt to have their pay decreased? I say Mark Hurd should hand back his unsubstantiated millions to cover the deficit the company has had!
My 2 cents worth.
As a past employee of HP and now a new employee of HP due to the take over of EDS, all I could say is you hit the nail on the head.
I would like to commend you on the accurate and honest view you have shown in your article.
It is time for all management across all large corps. to stand up to shareholders.
My sincere compliments with your excellent analyses, view points and recommendations! Spot on!
This should be published in the Wall Street Journal!
With supportive regards,
One of the few remaining true leaders within HP
"Many people assume wrongly that a company exists simply to make money.
While this is an important result of a company's existence we have to go deeper and find the real reasons for our being.
People get together and exist as a company so that they are able to accomplish something collectively that they could not accomplish separately, they make a contribution to society."
Wonder if Mr Hurd knows who wrote this or even cares.
"Many people assume wrongly that a company exists simply to make money"
The US supreme court specifically ruled that this assumption is correct and that it is the overriding reason for a company's existance. Henry Ford lost the case and US companies have been spinning.
You may be confusing a company with being incorporated. Incorporation of a charity etc provides participants with legal protections similar to for-profit companies. These protections are why laws are being amended to make employees specifically liable (eg executive fraud) rather than the company being able to write it off as just another 'cost of doing business'
"Why should we employees be taking a cut, when the bill sent to the client is no different"
Enjoying life as part of a conglomerate yet ? Product sales (printers etc in HP) are way down, especially in America, so all people in your company get a kick.
A major reason for HP to buy an outsourcing arm like EDS is specifically to provide a base income stream because EDS's customers might delay or cancel some projects but the core of "the bill sent to the client" should be fairly stable.
The fact that the EDS purchase is HP's third outsourcing arm and they've been driven into the ground each time is a worrying trend. Fortunately for shareholders, this time its going to be different, despite HP doing the same slash-and-burn as the root cause of the last 2 failures.
The Australian and American governments have learnt a little from past mistakes and are trying to inject money into their economies. EDS should be giving employees a 5% pay increase, drop executive salaries as most of that money wouldn’t be spent, just go into some investment / saving / economy destructive account.
Maybe this should be organised in the US also.
Outsourcing bills are often based on the workforce involved, not timely (or even any) delivery. While it is sad that HP are not selling any printers, the client I am assigned to ultimately pays my wage (with EDS taking a cut), and the printer sales pay the wages of those involved with writing software for, assembling and selling printers.
It is unfair (not just to the employee - but to the client) to use money allocated by one client to the workforce on their projects for anything other than that workforce.
Perhpas the model adopted by companies who choose to outsource is wrong, or perhaps the outsourcing companies themselves make the decision, but ultimately many (especially Govt) contracts are based on number of people, not ouput. This being so, if the number of people remains constant on a project, and the amount being charged remains the same, how can you justify cutting wages to the people on the project?
Ultimately, if the client found out that you were charging them the same and paying the employees working on your project less, wouldn't you be annoyed? All that can possibly result from such measures, is that HP loses much of the outsourcing that EDS has (perhpas this is why EDS is HP's third attempt - perhaps HP doesn't understand the world of outsourcing).
While in sales oriented companies the logic that a loss can be absorbed by sharing across the whole of the company, this sort of attitude is dangerous when clients are (or perceive themselves to be) paying for reduced service.
Tie into that the fact that employee morale goes down, careless (and malicious) errors start to crop up; and staff working client-side are openly miserable to their non-EDS peers (both client based perms, and contractors from other companies), and EDS (and HP's) reputation begins a downward spiral, and employees begin to look for other work (which EDS's competition is thrilled to hear, if they happen to share a client).
Of course, I am not an executive, and maybe some of my analysis is a little naive, but I would not be investing in HP given these sort of attitudes. I'd almost be prepared to wager that EDS gradually starts to lose many of their contracts around the world, and while with cheaper costs they may pick up some new ones, this will be with a smaller bill to the customer. Given that EDS is proud of a large volume of Government contracts the future looks grim. Government is a very unforgiving industry, and news spreads quickly through departments. The ice is getting incredibly thin for EDS.
Great summary. One that I had already collated and dispersed to my work colleagues at EDS Australia.
I have calculated that an average 5% paycut to approximately 275000 hp/eds employees globally is approximately $1B USD per annum.
As CEO, if mark Hurd does not get a 5% cut of a $1B reduction to the bottom line costs, there is something wrong ............ this would mean that he would receive a $50M BONUS just for cutting Salaries
One could compare the $1B figure to the $118B Revenue that HP earned last year and determine that the 5% paycut was equal to less than 1% of Revenue....... one could then argue that if the Fat Cats at the top, got off their lazy arses, that perhaps we could increase revenue by 1% and all this would go away ..... right?
BUT
The directors, and particularly the CEO, will get a MUCH bigger bonus for reduced costs from the bottom line by 5% than they would increasing revenue by 1% even though the figure is the same ($1B USD)
what a PACK OF GREEDY bloodsuckers
Guess who will be taking EVERY sick day I am entitled to ?
Guess who will no LONGER bill the customer for Business travel time ?
Guess who will no longer answer work calls after 5PM ?
Idiots
Anyway, today the CBA now has a BIGGER IT Department than back in the days when I was CBA Staff. To me, it seems these Amercian companies come over to Australia, mess us all around and then the US execs leave with their huge bonuses - Not caring for the people they leave behind !!!
If only they left us all alone, we'd all still be very happy working for the CBA (posting $1+Billion profits today)
I am one of the lucky ones, and found a far better employer - one that values it's people.
After 15 years of billable work for EDS (never on the bench), I still had to pay for my own team lunch... Disgraceful and Shocking.
As a Former employee of EDS (an HP Company)in Australia (Adelaide) EDS were paying well below Industry standards before the takeover. with total remuneration that includes super not + Super. So a persons base salary of say $38500 p/a Includes super of around 9% thus reducing the employees base to barely $30k a year or less. for a 37.5 hour week. Barely above the poverty line (currently around the $28K mark i believe)
Now HP wants us to take a further pay cut of 2.5 - 5 %.. Not likely Mr Turd.. oopps Hurd. Whilst all those in Senior positions rake in their bonuses and massive incentives. Come on who do you think we are.
A fairer and more solemn statement if they really want us to take a pay cut is to cancel all Senior Bonus's and commissions All employees regardless of position within the company , including the stinky FAT TURD himself. Get their 10 - 20 % base rate cut.. but only get paid their base pay no bonuses or commissions or nothing. thus saving the company more than what the global 5% cut will do.
This slap in the face is it, I am Glad I am out. My advice to all those who can.. SAY NO TO THE PAY CUT, and start looking for a new job. It may be hard but in Australia Unemployment benefits would be better than taking a pay Cut. At least you can go to the beach everyday and surf till your hearts content.
Personally I believe the employees who hold stocks , divest all of those stocks as a vote of no confidence in the Board and the CEO.
I am incensed by their behavior and and rhetoric, if I owned any shares I would sell immediately even if I made a loss.
They have troughed on the profits for years all the time leaving pain and desolation in their path. They are noting more than Parasites.
The real tough decisions are those that HP are not prepared to make, support the staff, buck the trend, lead by real example safeguard your staff and your personal reputation. Don't insult us with paltry rises and punitive pay cuts.
One last comment to a Captain of industry from the Worlds Wealthiest Nation, at the feet of your greatest monument lie the broken shackles of oppression and tyranny, you would do well to remember that before issuing these type of Dictates.
LIBERTAD
Personally, I'm just waiting for the axe to fall. No, I won't leave of my own volition, I still care about the quality of service I deliver to my client, even if senior management don't. And as for "best shoring" well........
Happy days! :-)
Bring the company to it's knees. Hurd's beloved shareholders will see him on his way quick-smart if industrial unrest undermines the stock price.
My concern is that HP won't have a business soon. I am a very stressed and unhappy Manager in EDS. Following the recent Workforce Reduction Programme which I had no choice over implementing, I can't meet agreed Service Levels, this has been escalated and the response I've had back (which has come from very senior HP) is that Service doesn't matter, cost reduction has to be the priority. Do they not realise that if the EDS arm of HP does not provide a good service, it will loose contracts and there will be no business. There will be more redundancies later in the year which will reduce service levels even lower.
These are greedy, greedy people who are compromising the whole company so they get their huge swag bag at the end of the year.
Employees do need to unite and rise against this idiocy and pure greed. I think MP's now need to be involved.
That makes me feel sooo much better about 'choosing' to take a pay cut.
Btw - my last pay rise was last June at a whopping £200. That's right, a whole £3.87 a week (before tax), Thanks EDS, you really give me that warm fluffy feeling inside..... NOT !!!!!
Mark Turd is a monster hypocrite. On the one hand he's saying "Look at me leading by example. I'm taking a 20% pay cut". On the other, that 20% really equates to something more in the region of 0.7% And then he has the audacity to "ask" me to take 5%. I'm not being funny here, but 5% to me is probably far more important than 0.7% to Mr Turd especially when you factor in how much they're likely to compensate him come the next set of bonuses…..
In the mean time, due to global financial instability and the EDS merger etc. I’m inline for no bonuses, no pay rises and (as already mentioned) am expected to take a 5% cut. To add insult to injury, once everything has settled down and the world is out of recession (not likely for a few years) there’re no plans to give me my 5% back and don’t even think about getting a pay rise in line with inflation! Right now, our wages are set to stay the same and year on year everything will be getting more expensive. The longer we stay working for HP the more it’ll start costing US!
And finally, what will happen to all the top execs? Yup, that’s right. They’ll be rolling in their multi-million dollar annual bonuses!
This should have hit national news papers by now!
Additionally, given that Hurd is getting a real cut of .78%, we should all be very happy to say yes to a .195% cut to do our bit 'for the corper!'.
Maybe people were an important part of a company in those days but now greed and money is the only driver to be in business.
Well maybe investors see it that way, so I am foolish to believe that the sum of a company is the value of it's employees.
Investor:
The US supreme court specifically ruled that this assumption is correct and that it is the overriding reason for a company’s existence. Henry Ford lost the case and US companies have been spinning.
You may be confusing a company with being incorporated. Incorporation of a charity etc provides participants with legal protections similar to for-profit companies. These protections are why laws are being amended to make employees specifically liable (eg executive fraud) rather than the company being able to write it off as just another ‘cost of doing business’
Ethics indeed ?
His compensation in fiscal year 2007 was $25,253,461 - so, by my calculations a 68% increase in the total package from 2007 to 2008. " ... WE ARE TALKING OF MILLIONS HERE! Again, 68% increase>> in a year?
Damian, my spouse works like a mad horse for this company and for OVER 5 years he had all FAITH that somehow his efforts and hard work be recognized with a decent renumeration, but NO, in 5 years, NOTHING. HE IS WELL BELOW his pay band salary! But, he was GIVEN more work, more responsibilities and yes, MORE stress. Loyalty has not fed his family, FAITH in the company has now turned to sourness. After reading this material, I assure you, he has LOST it, the drive, the dedication and eagerness to work for this greedy company. He has HAD a lot of offers from other companies but his heart WAS with HP. Guess what, NOT ANYMORE!!
68% increase in Mr Hurd's total package did you say?? For freaking 5 years, all my spouse probably got was an E-Award for a menial amount his 2 kids would enjoy in Toy Dept. And so after 5 years, a pay cut is what HP employees face despite the billions of profit the company makes. I hope Mr Hurd and his Senior Exectuives GET what they truly deserve one day.
Words for the Day: Greedy, Devious, Manipulative, Abuse.
The HP I worked for 8 years ago is not the HP I am part of today - there is no culture or company spirit except that which is generated by individuals - it is not driven from the top down.
These sorts of announcements from Senior Management are debilitating and do nothing but erode employee ambition, drive and attitude.
Maybe the HP workforce should unionize to ensure they have a voice? This needs to occur before Mark Hit-And-Run Hurd makes his millions but leaves a broken down company that is a shadow of its former self in his wake.
First, this isn't the only pay cut that HP employees have taken in questionable times. Some of my coworkers from the pre-Carly era discussed large pay cuts that were never restored, so this is at least the second time this action has been used. I will grant, though, that they enjoyed lavish bonus payments during the flush times that make our current variable pay scheme look lame.
Second, during one of his initial all-employee meetings Mark derided the practice of pay cuts, saying that he didn't believe in them because the action was only temporary.
Third, many, many of us have been and continue to be required to train replacements. While we're trying to do the best we can in those endeavors you just can't replace experience gained over many years of service. Our replacements have some excellent qualities and behaviors that dovetail nicely with what management really wants. They can't provide the level of service with newbie skills, poorly learned english and a lack of hard-won knowledge and our customers suffer from this daily.
Fourth, during a recent all-hands meeting Mark responded to an employee question with the trite response that "HP is a global company that 'just happens' to be based in the United States." This, I believe, was in response to a comment about the mere hint that the US Government might consider legislation making jobs movement painful for employers.
Fifth, a large number of the remaining US-based services and some sales employees just got the wonderful news that they would be expected to relocate to a reduced number of work centers. The newest and preferred desitinations were either in New Mexico or Arkansas with a handful of other "go forward" locations as less preferred options. This was stated as a "consolidation" of call center locations and numbers of other remote sites were touted as huge savings for being closed. Several larger, existing sites where concentration of managers already "resided" were the alternate locations but most direct people managers are also being forced to relocate. And we're all expected to bear the majority of the relocation burden ourselves in the same rotten real estate market. Those who have agreed to these relocations may still have further salary reductions due to possible "job realignments." Of course there also is NO guarantee that relocating will guarantee keeping a job either.
Sixth, others have mentioned this. Many US-based employees have not gotten raises since Compaq was purchased. Some hadn't received raises before the merger was initiated. A lot of managers have openly taken a harsh and adversarial attitude about employee compensation complaints and most of us have had a direct manager or one, two or three levels above them say "...if you don't like it you can leave." This happened and continues to happen during some of our most successful times.
Seventh? Well, you'd think that a company with the size of HP should have some serious clout negotiating with health insurers... WRONG! Our insurance and other benefits are being whittled down and slashed in the name of "market pressures" and the "poorly performing health industry in the US." Our options cost more "at the pump" and our co-payments or co-insurance costs continue to take the express elevator upward each open enrollment. Couple those regular increases with cost of living expenses rising and no raises and you've already got what amount to regular pay reductions.
Another columnist reviewed the situation at HP and commented that the pay cuts went like clockwork in the US but that other global locations required employee "permission" to reduce pay of the workers. That if this didn't receive virtually rubber stamp approval that times would be very hard on HP. In the US we've been given two constants to expect. These pay cuts won't be recinded and there's never ANY guarantee that the cuts will ever stop the threat of more job reductions.
Employees are viewed at HP as liabilities, plain and simple. Most of the variable compensation the corporation brags about are booby-trapped like the proverbial carrot on a stick. Always just out of reach and the stick keeps getting longer. Our corporate existance lives and dies by the "survey of industry standards" reports we're never allowed to see but that continually warp salaries and insurance benefits. The latest travesty is that we've been asked to burn three or more days of vacation off the books to improve our corporate situation. It would be most refreshing if all of these childish games were requested in honesty and we were clearly told "this is to help HP and the shareholders." At least we haven't been told to take vacation to improve our "work-life balance" for a few years, but the practice continues with other benefits.
In a word, working here is painful at best now.
To rub salt into the wound, this is on top of many employee's not having recieved a salary increase for the last 6 years.
A cut in base salary doesn't just impact 'normal employees' in terms of take home home pay, but also reduces pensions, potential future bonuses, and redundancy payments should they choose to loose us.
I wonder what Bill and Dave would have made of this new HP Management style? Time to throw my copy of the 'HP Way' out I think!
"Services contributed 1/3 of the company’s profit this quarter. TS drove modest revenue growth in constant currency and strong operating performance. This quarter reflects the highest ever operating profit delivered by TS. It is clear the actions we have taken in the last few years are paying off."
I am told in the UK the cut will be voluntary - I will use the above as my reasoning for turning down the opportunity, but just in case I have already started working 5% less - just in case.
I'm pretty sure people who worked a while at HP can still remember this particular policy where the employees should be put first. AND NOT JUST ON THE PAPER!!!!! It's not just done to hang up some poster with a slogan like "our most valuable asset" etc....
I'm so fed up with all this and really close to throw the towel. In our department we lost so many really high skilled people because it's never appreciated what we are doing. And a lot of knowledge get's lost and new people have to struggle to get the correct information.
I'm working in a volume orientated department and all it matters is not to achieve but overachieve the targets. We hardly had enough people to do so and despite all circumstances we worked overtime even on holidays and weekends to keep up with the expectations.
But obviously that wasn't enough instead of acknowledging what we are doing, it got announced that all overtime won't be paid out anymore. Of course the target's remaining still the same. Not enough additionally we've got announced that part of us will be relocated and few weeks later the pay cut.
Despite all that we still supposed to work as motivated as ever because it's all for the good of the company AND the bonus of Mark and the gang.
It's getting ridiculous I'm not expecting to get a 24 Million bonus like Mark or a salary which is way over average. All I want is to get paid for my work I'm doing here and a healthy work environment. Where employees will be treated as people and not only as a number which maybe can be reduced.
This is not just about the people who has to leave it's as well unbearable for the people which has to stay and catch up the mess of managements decisions to still cope with the workload.
The pay cut is clearly not the last thing they will try to get away with. I'm really concerned if they will get away with that what comes up next? And before I have to figure that out I would have left this company.
If every employee would pull on the same string we really could make a point and spread a really clear message which would be NOT WITH US!!!! But as long as just a few of us are standing up nothing will change at all.
And I really would not want to be in his shoes right now AT ALL!!!
As for long memories.. I remember dear Carly asked all to take a 10% pay cut many years back, we did (to help the company) then she goes and buys Compaq. From there..from a personal POV...its been all downhill. Never did get that 10% back. Expect me to accept the pay cut this time round?? NO WAY !! HP has shafted me long enough.... to the detriment of my health, my family's well being, having to get loans to survive (at a much lower lifestyle than 10 years ago).
HP will NEVER be forgiven for what these temporary cream-skimming fat cats do to us lowly troops on the front line. But....hey!... do they worry anyway... I'm over 40...so an expendable liability. So be it HP... time to fight dirty !!
They are so far divorced from reality, they may as well be on another planet.
For people outside of the industry to fully understand the concept of this situation, it should be explained that the term 'Compensation' used within US Companies refers to the part of 'Salary' that is in addition to the 'Basic Salary Rate'. This enables a company to announce a Salary Increase/Decrease of (x) amount, making an Income Rise, (What is that one may say as none have been paid by this company as I see it for over THREE YEARS?) sound much more that the actual hard figures produce.
To illustrate this further let us look at the astronomical amount of income
Mr Mark Hurd HP’s CEO, receives based on the figures mentioned by
Damian Saunders above, and how the proposed cut of 20% really is.
A (20%) cut in his 'Basic Salary' on $1,450,000, does indeed amount to $290,000.
A (1.148%) cut in his 'Compensation in fiscal year 2007/2008' of $25,253,461 produces the same amount of only $290,000.
A (0.68%) cut in his 'Total compensation in 2008' of $42,514,524 also produces the same amount of only $290,000.
THIS IS MUCH LESS THAN (1%)
AT JUST A LITTLE MORE THAN (HALF OF ONE CENT)
He must be really worried how on EARTH he is going to cope with this loss?
Sorry I forget, he is not on this planet is he?
Finally I would mention the story of a Garage Servicing Company that was one of my clients.
This concern was a good stable company with regular, on going income from a solid customer base built on their reliability and reputation over many years.
All this changed on the appointment of a New GM,(Hatchet Man) this income suddenly was seen as inadequate and could not sustain the current level of workforce.
They had a regular trade, with vehicles requiring servicing per week.
The workforce was reduced from 16 to 12, a 25% cut in staff.
The remaining workforce were expected to cover the same amount of work as when they were fully staffed, and one of the men made redundant was the most experienced of them all.
This garage had fired the most knowledgeable guy, and when complicated problems arose, they could no longer be handled by the remaining staff leaving the door wide open to competition.
Inevitably the workforce could not cope with the pressure generated by this extra work, and sickness became a major problem which in turn created even more pressure on this depleted workforce.
Standards of work were drastically reduced in attempts to meet the deadlines on returning the vehicles to their owner on time, and complaints were becoming the norm, in this company that once had an impeccable standard.
The end result was for trade to be lost to competitors, the company name and reputation of excellence was destroyed, and the company going into liquidation.
The staff lost their employment, the shareholders lost their money,and the garage closed.
There was but one survivor, the Hatchet Man, who left the company with his guaranteed golden handshake, and walked into another Hatchet Man position in another company to start the inevitable downward spiral of that company all over again.
Note the resemblance to what you Guy's are now facing?
Your best bet is for these facts to be handed to the media, but be very careful how you do this, as there are ways that this can come back a kick you in the ass, and out of a job.
I sincerely wish you every success, and am so pleased that I am no longer in the industry.
Just our net profit has declined by 13%, if suppose HP incurs a loss of around say $1bn what would happen to us??
It is brilliant, you know HP so well.
The CFE-CGC is the french "white collar" union organization, #1 union at HP-EDS in France.
What you described is exactly what we said in an articled we published within HP France on February 23rd. It was just what the large majority of employees felt like, they asked us to translate that article into english such that they could use it for an answer to the solicitation of their manager for a "voluntary" pay cut and to share their view with other HP colleagues abroad.
Here is the link to read our article which is very consistent with yours:
Flash : (EN) HP Way, or not HP Way: that is not the question…
Thank you so much we need more people like to speak out and give courage to more people to say "enough is enough"!
On behalf of the CFE-CGC union organization at HP-EDS in France.
Mark Hurds decision to not match the Pay cut is nothing short of a disgrace. Leadership should be through example, not by through the employees expense. EDS employees on a whole see no benefit to the HP takeover, the best people will leave and it won't be long until this leads to our competitors leaving us behind.
I know all my life time saving is invested back in pension funds and I would expect my pension funds to deliver results which means as a investor it is but natural to ask for more profits consistently. As far as Mark's stock is concerned, all of us as employees do also have stocks in line with what responsibility each of us have. We all stand to gain or lose as much as any of big bosses depending on the company's performance. I would only like to end by saying we have a very short time in this world, lets not be so negative and try to live positively. God Bless.....
Can you imagine if the president of the USA got to submit all of the votes that were not cast in an election? When 22% of the electorate votes, that would give the president 78% ownership of the ballots by default.
This is the problem. The BOD does not listen to the shareholders. They listen to the big, wealthy shareholders and ignore the majority who are small stock owners.
Many people do not vote because they are un-concerned. Fine. Their votes should go in the trash can, not in the BOD's pocket.
I think all those managers should think WHO is really responsible for these results ??
I hope this URL will also be read by Barack Obama and increase the tax to 100% for bonuses above 1 million.
These people are ruining the market and achieve 100% result in demotivating people :-(
As an hp lifer I have seen this company go from a great company to work for to just another company. HP lost all of its magic, the vital ingredients that Bill and Dave put as the foundation including the famous HP Way.
Benefits that have been taken away from us :
<ul>
<li>non contributory pension</li>
<li>non contributory medical</li>
<li>company wide profit sharing</li>
<li>employee share scheme</li>
<li>holiday cottage scheme</li>
<li>company car scheme</li></ul>
No pay rises to speak of over the last 5 years while cost of living has increased enormously.
HP totally sucks, I used to be proud to work for HP, now I don't give a toss about it.
In 1984 US employee's were asked to take one day off without pay every other week so our brothers and sisters in the UK (Ireland perhaps) wouldn't suffer lay-offs. We did so gladly! Back then HP wasn't just a place to work - it was a family. That ended when Lew Platt retired. Rumor was that he just couldn't stomach it anymore and was tired of fighting with the board.
Are any of so naive as to think that mere salaries are the reason for this hemorrhaging of jobs? Really? Don't you think OSHA has something to do with it?
Like the owner of Nike we send jobs to places where people will work for pennies, we can pollute all we want, there are no civil rights, workers rights or environmental checks and balances - make obscene profits and distribute that money to less than 1% of the people in the company that make it happen.
Carly Fiorina (damn her balck soul) said to a slew of reporters "American's have no God given rights to these jobs" as she put thousands of people out of work to increase the profit margin for the Board of Directors, and make no mistake about it - they are the big dogs who really run the show. And now that hideous woman wants to run for Senator! What makes her think anyone in their right mind would vote for her? The same thing that makes Mark believe that no one will have the smarts to see past his smoke and mirrors - and even more audacious is his assumption that those who do don't matter enough to touch him anyway! His children will not go without food, shelter or medical services as so many of the children of ex-HP employee's will and he will not loose any sleep over it.
At a time when the housing market in the US and particularly in California is busting and people are loosing their homes, being foreclosed by banks Mark gets a housing subsidy! Nice.... but of course to be expected because he is one of the "betters" not one of us.
HP has been outsourcing and off shoring jobs in mass since 1985. Did you know that the American Government dosen't even track the number of jobs that are shipped to offshore? If we had half the protection in the US that the UK has this would not be happening, or at least not on this scale.
I hate to sound like a Bolshevik but its it the elitists like Mr. Hurd and his cronies who drive people to that extreme. Not just Hurd alone, but his board of directors, his VP's, The leaders of Enron, AIG, and the people in the American government who allow it and all those like him who feel themselves above the rest of us. And what are they asking our government for? More H1B visa's! More tax breaks. More, more, more......
And what are they asking of us? Do more - with less and for less. The total lack of morals and even human compassion boggles the mind and I often wonder why do we allow this? Not only allow it but in fact treat these people like Gods who should be revered and respected? Why?
Why aren't major news organizations printing the hard truth? Well because here in the US almost all major papers are owned by conglomerates who have sold us out as well. What we need is a revolution - and one that will not just "fix" things going forward by one that is retroactive, that will go back to the people Firoina, Dunn, Kevin Weiss, Gregg Reyes, Brian Keane, Jacob “Kobi” Alexander, Sanjay Kumar, Joseph P. Nacchio, and the Erik Prince's of the world and confiscate all their ill gotten gains and leave their wives and children penniless, homeless and without medical insurance - we need to confiscate their retirement plans (even if they are private savings accounts) and treat them they way they have treated the people who work for them.
I empathize with all the commentators above who have recently discovered that having your company acquired by HP is not a good thing- and that while you may have thought this is one of the best companies to work for I submit to you that this is all smoke and mirrors - they are riding on the reputation of a company that was built by Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard and has been kidnapped, pillaged and plundered by the likes of those named above and others.
I'd like to see someone here at HP try to start a union! I'd sign! We never needed one before - when it was Bill & Dave's HP, but now we need a union more than ever!
These are the Robber Barrons of the 21st century and we are all looking the other way or worse - fawning over them as though they are not criminals!
In the blanket request for pay cuts, there are several countries that have little or no laws protecting the average worker from these kinds of moves I believe the US and China for instance are two of these countries. They will have 100% take up of the volentary pay cut in those countries. The rest of us who do have a choice are the cream in the pay cuts and another reason to say no.
The other thing that really rips my petty coat is the distance of where this request has come from. Mark Hurd has made absolutely no concession for local economics, in just about all of the countries there has been 0% cut in the general cost of living in fact it just keep creeping upwards, ie fuel, food, accommodation, people are mortgaged up to the eye balls property prices in so countries have fallen so low they people are in negative equity though no fault of their own aside from a wish for a better life.
To all those from EDS that joined the program so late in the game, I feel sorry for you, but for the rest of us that have been associated with HP since before Mark Hurd joined the company we have gone though slice after slice, ducking the blade and trying to remain motivated, productive, and happy. Personally I think for many at HP they will put up and shut up, sadly for them, they will be less motivated to do anything more than just protect their own jobs. In the old days when people had spunk they walked off the job in unison until they were listened too.
Welcome to the Global community.
The time prior to this was in the 80s, again it was voluntary and was for a limited number of months before being returned to normal.
The difference was that in those days, HP treated its employees well with good working conditions, generous benefits and regular pay increases that generally improved ones lot and made you feel very good to work for HP. We know HP treated us well and in time of need we were willing to help HP out of a tough situation by doing the right thing. In those days HP always prided itself of never having made anyone redundant.
In those days, the senior execs were not taking the piss with the massive remuneration that this current bunch of wankers are getting.
There is now absolutely no good will between HP and its employees, and the reason is simple, we have been treated with total contempt by successive hp management regimes.
Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard would be totally ashamed of the state of the company these days and that's a fact. Everything they worked so hard to build has just turned into A.N Other greedy US faceless corporation.
I for one will not be volunteering for any pay cut, and I strongly advise other European hp workers to follow suit.
It also used to be the case that there was no reason to be a member of a union at HP as we were treated well and were rewarded for our efforts, well things are different now and many workers in the UK have joined the Unite union.
The actions taken since the merger will see HP and the industry suffer in the near to medium term. HP's name will be blacklisted amongst IT workers. The industry will be shunned as an option for a viable and long term career. Universities and colleges will see reductions in enrollments. The outcome of this will be the reverse of what HP management (sorry I just can't find myself wanting to say his name) set out to achieve.
As world enconomies start to turn, the demand for IT skills will outstrip supply and as we have seen in the building industry salaries will rise. Its basic economics. Our once proud industry, an industry of innovation filled with a broad cross section of talent is being pushed into the gutter by actions such as these.
When was the last major break through, the last real innovation that delivered real value to the industry from HP? Sure HP spent billions on RD's but where's the value. Tin is tin in my book. Is it coincidence that the product divisions of HP have delivered the greatest loss? Clients don't care about the tin anymore. Its the first thing they stop spending money on. Just like you and I in our households, clients stop spending on capital items. What they really need right now is the service. The people providing them with the smart thinking, ensuring their business is running at maximum efficiency and greater return.
HP is killing the services industry. Ask yourself a simple question. For all the size and resources that HP possess why couldn't they make it in the services industry. Surely if they wanted to they could have been highly successful. They either don't want to or culturally they don't get it. I'd say that the second reason drives the behaviors of the first.
Its a sad time for a once proud professional industry...but its not over yet!
Not sure if anyone else has reported it yet but as a contractor for HP in Melbourne (Australia) i just heard yesterday that they're discussing cutting the pay of contractors also..
I believe this is largely due to the law here preventing them from taking the 5% from permanent staff, without consent.
It's being asked as a voluntary reduction for permanent staff and since they're not expecting many people to say yes (why would you) they're planning to try and extend the reductions to the contractors also!
They have the “People Promise” program; but in looking at it, it is to get people that “they want to invest in as management material” into degree programs in college. The problem with that is they no longer fund that program either. One mistaken email intended to go only to managers, went out to everyone stated that the People Promise programs was to assist the managers in helping the employees cope with current and future changes to their classifications. You can guess what that really met.
I have several business acquiesces that had their jobs moved from one department to another. In the transfer of these jobs, they were all terminated, and then asked to reapply for the new positions. While 50% received job offers, they were normally at 60% to 75% of their previous pay. The other positions were filled with contract workers at administrator salary levels.
We used to have a 100% match on the first 6% contribution to 401K money saved. But now they have changed to a 4% match cap on this money; but only if we meet certain profitability goals (per quarter). These goals are also unpublished.
The much touted pay for performance bullshit as a bonus, is exactly that. HP went from a fixed bonus system to a ‘variable bonus’ system. The theory is that a slacker was getting the same bonus as a person that was out performing. The reality is they used this as an excuse to cut the bonus money pool, as they found out it was eating too far into the ‘profits’ (actually executive bonus).
Another area, unspoken, is the reduction of redundancy pay. They cut it in half. Nothing more is needed to be said on this subject… Just guess as to why.
So the surprising thing is the internal surveys that HP gives on a 6 month basis always asks the same question “If you were offered another position with another company at equal or lesser pay, you would not accept it”. While they keep changing the contest of this question from a positive answer meaning you are faithful to HP to a negative one meaning the same thing, normally the response is 70%~80% stating that they would leave HP. I cannot for the life of me imagine why.
As for me not only has inflation in the US (where I live) gone up 11~12 percent in the last 4 years or so, and I have not had a pay increase nor review, as every time this period walks around. Due to constant acquisition of other companies, I have a new manager in the middle of it and the old manager is getting pinged to complete the review; but they are no longer here. Now a loss of 5%, and I have had to stop buying lunch at work altogether, and a lot of other ‘fun’ things in my life. I now have started another position on the weekends to supplement my loss of income at HP. This is a sad commentary to be making at 52 years old, that I have to work multiple jobs to make it in life.
Our Corporate Objectives
Customer loyalty
We earn customer respect and loyalty by consistently providing the highest quality and value.
Profit
We achieve sufficient profit to finance growth, create value for our shareholders and achieve our corporate objectives.
---How much is sufficient?
Growth
We recognize and seize opportunities for growth that builds upon our strengths and competencies.
Market leadership
We lead in the marketplace by developing and delivering useful and innovative products, services and solutions.
Commitment to employees
We demonstrate our commitment to employees by promoting and rewarding based on performance and by creating a work environment that reflects our values.
---Oh really? Most HP/EDS employees would dispute this vehemently. In the first 12 weeks of FY09, HP makes $1.9B profit, yet all employees have to take a pay CUT.
Leadership capability
We develop leaders at all levels who achieve business results, exemplify our values and lead us to grow and win.
---Really? How does hiring an ex CEO, released due to lack of performance, after he was arrested in a bribery and corruption scandal, for which that company was fined over $1B by the US SEC, demonstrate this objective?
Global citizenship
We fulfill our responsibility to society by being an economic, intellectual and social asset to each country and community where we do business.
---Pfft
There is also no sight of how the skills and knowledge transfer or position cover is being handled. No plans for merging of service lines to ensure service. Nothing. It is just like they want to loose business?
I was a senior manager in EDS, though not proud of it for the last two years so I know these things are coming. I couldn't live with what was going on anymore so, I left in the last VR round when there would be no hold on my staying.
Someone mentioned ethics in a post above....to be honest I think the people in the UK executing this "plan" have no idea what that word means. To them Ethics is a county north of Kent.
I wish the people in Aviva well as the transfer into EDS. They will be protected for 12 months as part of their TUPE deal. But after that.....poor buggers. I hope their contract termination clauses are good.
The other flagship contract EDS has in the UK is Rolls Royce. This is due for renewal in 2010. And will be an interesting thing to watch. If RR go, then some very significant EDS resources and capabilities will also fall by the wayside.
To those still within EDS. You have my thoughts. Best wishes and luck to you
Get organised & get unionised & apply some leverage & maybe the fat cats will stop lapping @ the cream.
Just a correction: correct spelling for "oportunism" is opportunism (need an extra "p")
:-)
Take care and Keep up the good work..
R
Hurd is worse than Carly ever was. He is hollowing the company out and in few years, once his contract expires he'll be gone milking another company to death. By then, there will be nothing left from HP.
Cutting costs and expenses is not how you sustain a business. You need to cut costs only to be able to REINVEST the savings into new product development! He is cutting everything, including R&D. He even hired third party company to do twice a day walk through tally count of who is in his cube or not! Can you believe? If you are out in the meeting, in the lab or on business trip, you are out of luck.
Messrs Billl and Dave must be turning in their graves!
I am leaving this sinking ship HP, recession or not. Good people always can find a decent job, or find new company.
In our country it's illegal to do pay cuts, but the government is studying the proposal from private companies. Now that people on this blog mentions in their countries it´s "optional", i believe that's what's going to happen here and makes me sad and poor.
Please take into account that you are employed to service us the stock holders, we own the company remember!!!
Taking a pay cut of $250,000 when you have a multi million dollar salary may sound like nothing to you, but it could be the difference between buying a holiday house in Monaco, or having to settle for the West Indies.
On average, HP employees will lose $3500 from their yearly earnings, that is meager (I spend that on lunch)
Harden up people.
As a HP employee of 9 years I have never felt so overwhelmed with support from fellow employees - Finally we are not alone!
HP has always told us to keep our remuneration experiences a secret, to personally deal with the grief, stress and pain of a poorly managed salary system. We have no union in Australia, no one who can make a change, or even cares - but it is a relief to know we have each other.
This blog is the start of something big, a chance to unite around the world and have our words "Hurd"! We are overworked, we are under paid, we are the success of this company and we deserve better. It is not an equitable company - the EDS merger is only offering redundancy and 'spin of the wheel' chances to have your name put in a box for a role.
HP Executives hear the 'voice of the work force'... we won't keep quiet any more, you can't bully us into submission, trick us with your own salary cuts and you now truly have "ONE HP" to deal with...
I'm torn between saying, "Quit your bitch'en." and "Help!!! It's not fair!! We are being taken advantage of."
It's the way of the global economy. I don't think that unions are the answer, but perhaps. I suspect we are all going to have to just hang on until the global pressures are equalized and we may even have to come to the realization that life for the middle-class working for a company isn't going to be as good as it once was.
You don't need to wait 12 weeks, it's been announced today, another round of WFR's (WFR = Work Force Reduction, they don't even have the decency to call it what it is)
We can complain until we are blue in the face, and in the end nothing will change, we won’t make a sound, we won’t be heard.
I have never been a part of a union or gone on strike, but maybe it is what we need.
Things will only get worse as the cycle of greed continues, and we as employees do nothing to stop it. They keep screwing us because they can, and we let them. How far will they push, will we ever push back?
Our power is in our numbers, we are all obviously unhappy. The way this company treats us makes us all sick! Does that constitute a global sick day?
…if all the trees fall in a forest at once it’s bound to make a hell of a sound, even Mark Hurd will hear that!
"We the unwilling, led by the unknowing are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing"
F#$k you very much, Mark Hurd !
"We have no union in Australia, no one who can make a change, or even cares"
We certainly do have a union. What we need is some of the rest of you to join those of us who are members so we can fight back; we can't do it without the numbers.
Go to the following site for all the info: http://www.apesma.asn.au/membership/join_apesma.asp
"There are lies, damn lies and then there are statistics....."
(Often attributed to Mark Twain but actually coined by Benjamin Disraeli)
Ater these MBA cricket have travelled the world in their corporate jets there will Merely Bones Ahead.
I'm an HP employee in France for 10 years. I totally agree with Damian's article and the comment. Very well written.
I've read in one comment that we, HP employees in France, have an automatic pay rise every year for inflation. That would be so good! But that's not the case. Even the average of pay raises have been under the inflation, and many of us have not been increased at all for years.
The reason why we had increases this year (as several other countries and Mark Hurd) is that HP France legally accepted the pay increases, as legally mandated every year. Mark came after to say no pay increases, but he went too late, eh eh !
Anyway, they are going to remove a Saving Plan that is 2500€ per year, so nearly one month salary. Finally, everywhere, we are f****d...
All the good people will leave and HP will be left by then with the employees who will no longer deliver quality, they'll work as they are paid maybe.
I still take pride in what I do and I thrive to deliver the best I can. But I don't know how much longer I can take this: not beeing paid for what I deliver, no bonus, not even a pat on the shoulder, and now this...
So far they cut and cut.. since I joined I can only hear about this cost reduction. The increase in my salary is so far nothing, as after the 5% cut, even if I work for two years now for them, I will have the same salary as when I joined!
They can go and get stuffed !
I joined EDS on a reduced salary from my previous employer because I was lead to believe that I would be rewarded for performance.
Well I have performed and the pay review period came and went, postponed till February by HP (to bring EDS in line with them), then it was canceled for 2009, now they want 5% back, incredible.
I too have taken on more responsibility and moved into a management position, all with no increase.
And I think I am correct in saying that it was stated that EDS (if you took it in isolation) performed to all it's targets, now I can't help feeling that if EDS had not, there would be no hesitation in cutting more heads in EDS.
So you can't help feeling anger at the promise "The merger with HP will be a huge boost for EDS", frankly I think we were better off on our own.
Very good article Damian.
I'm a French HP employee. Here we are "lucky": as in most places in Europe it is illegal to force pay cuts. You have to be volunteer, which is not the case in the US.
To answer "HI HO" comment above : "In fact in France they have to get a mandatory annual pay increase to match inflation"
This is not true. This exists I think in Spain for example, but not in France. I did not get a pay raise since 2007.
Maybe after so much abuse, finally people will move!
Clearly they have managed to DEMOTIVATE practically every employee in the company. Surely that is worth yet another BONUS ?
And no doubt, by the time this will start showing in the company's results, Mark F^*&^* Hurd and his gang of bloodsuckers will have "moved on" to other OVERPAID JOBS at other companies !
These guys need TREATMENT or LOCKING UP, before they do any more damage!
I'm an EDS (HP) employee in Hungary. You won't believe this but the pay-cut will affect Hungary as well however we are a "Best Shore" location...I rather say "Cheap Shore" location within EDS. Imagine, we have an average salary of 600 to 800 US dollars per month (Level 1, 2)! AND this is still not cheap enough for HP??
It's unbelievable that the top managers from HP/EDS are getting millions when we are facing a global economical crisis. They should cut their own salary ONLY, sell the corporate jet and use economic flight mate! Come up with the good example!
The Great Leveler!!
Take from "Haves" give to "Have Nots"!!
Let the "Haves" shout their heads off, but they will learn to live with less!!
Long Live the WORLD!!!
You're wrong, it was never the case and this year too. The only advantage this year is that there was an agreement before MH decisions.
The avrerage of salary increase was set to 2% and accepted by France direction.
Personnaly I got 5% in 7 years...
At the end of this month, we are expecting the first round of WFR's due to the merger. Yesterday, we discovered an add in the newspaper for a big recruting day to join HP. They day is planned on April 2nd.... 2 days after WFR's...... Ethical?
What's ironic is this: The top execs in HP are making millions for themselves each year. What do they care if they devastate the workforce? By the time the devastation reaches and is felt in the market place, Hurd and his friends will have made enough to live on for their and their children's lifetimes. The top execs will no longer be working for HP because they can no longer sustain performance with a workforce that has been severely crippled.
I wonder when Hurd and his friends get together, enjoying their expensive wine and caviar, do they utter the words "let them eat cake"?
1 – Health benefits are costing employees more money out of pocket each month (this occurs every year)
2 – No salary raises for outstanding performance and profits in 2008 (no raises for most employees in 5 plus years)
3 – No more stock options for employees
4 – No eAward money 2009
5 – Elimination of the pension plan
6 – Employees now have to pay for internet, telephone and cell phone beginning Feb 1 09 (approximately $200 per month)
7 - No travel for training or any other training costs allowed
8 – Maximum of 3 months severance payout if laid off
9 – Matching 401K plan is being reduced by 2% beginning April 1 09
10 – Elimination of 15% discount on stock ownership plan
11 – 5% pay cut beginning Mar 16 09. Salary not to be reinstated at a later date
12 – Mark to reconsider laying off 20K employees in the up coming months
13 – Vacation must be used in the year it is earned – no more vacation carry-over.
14 – Health benefits for domestic partners has been cut unless they are a same-sex couple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R19xO3JYnK4
The HP Way
We have trust and respect for individuals.
We approach each situation with the belief that people want to do a good job and will do so, given the proper tools and support. We attract highly capable, diverse, innovative people and recognize their efforts and contributions to the company. HP people contribute enthusiastically and share in the success that they make possible.
We focus on a high level of achievement and contribution.
Our customers expect HP products and services to be of the highest quality and to provide lasting value. To achieve this, all HP people, especially managers, must be leaders who generate enthusiasm and respond with extra effort to meet customer needs. Techniques and management practices which are effective today may be outdated in the future. For us to remain at the forefront in all our activities, people should always be looking for new and better ways to do their work.
We conduct our business with uncompromising integrity.
We expect HP people to be open and honest in their dealings to earn the trust and loyalty of others. People at every level are expected to adhere to the highest standards of business ethics and must understand that anything less is unacceptable. As a practical matter, ethical conduct cannot be assured by written HP policies and codes; it must be an integral part of the organization, a deeply ingrained tradition that is passed from one generation of employees to another.
We achieve our common objectives through teamwork.
We recognize that it is only through effective cooperation within and among organizations that we can achieve our goals. Our commitment is to work as a worldwide team to fulfill the expectations of our customers, shareholders and others who depend upon us. The benefits and obligations of doing business are shared among all HP people.
We encourage flexibility and innovation.
We create an inclusive work environment which supports the diversity of our people and stimulates innovation. We strive for overall objectives which are clearly stated and agreed upon, and allow people flexibility in working toward goals in ways that they help determine are best for the organization. HP people should personally accept responsibility and be encouraged to upgrade their skills and capabilities through ongoing training and development. This is especially important in a technical business where the rate of progress is rapid and where people are expected to adapt to change.
In Switzerland, and from what I know in Europe, the 5 % cut in salary is optional. So far I did not meet one, not even managers, considering this. EDS just joined HP and in a way I am proud to be part of this very successful company. But what makes me mad is that in the midst of struggling with dismissals (they say for structural reasons, which means outsourcing) we are asked for a substantial salary cut. What a great way to start with!
How about some more effectiveness? Its easy, costs nothing and brings money. My own productivity is down to 10 percent, the rest is administrative paper work to please some managers with red, yellow and green bars. I am told this is necessary to commit to international standards (now I do understand why we have a crisis) and it does improve the quality (which I doubt it does). Might be, that customers care about ISO- standards and CMMI levels but I guess all they want is a good product at a reasonable price. Did anyone ever count the loss of manpower just deleting the tons of e-mails the employees are not interested in? Great - here a casual day and there a new contract but does every single HP/EDS-employee have to know?
I read a lot of frustration here and my hope for the future is that this is hu(ea)rd and we all can be one big family again.
I'm always amazed at people who say that it's normal to cut wages as the only duty a US company has is towards its shareholders. So, totaly demotivating an already weary workforce is a good thing for shareholders...? I must have missed something somewhere.
To be fair to Hurd, he has done a lot of good structural things and has sorted out many known problems. However, he appears to be a one-trick dog, and doesn't seem to know how to do anything other than cut costs. Where's the strategic vision? Where's the motivation? Carly, for all her faults, was an excelent motivational speaker who could communicate her vision. I feel Hurd is similar to Margaret Thatcher: they've both started out agressively dealing with well-known problems, but Thatcher didn't know when to stop and took it all too far. Let's hope Hurd knows how to move on from structural cost-cutting to the dynamics of vision and motivation: unfortunately, my guess is that he doesn't and will bail out in a few years, a very rich, self-satisfied man, leaving behind him the shell of a soul-less company of no value to anyone whatsoever, let alone the precious shareholders.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10787_3-10185913-60.html
I've been working for this company for 2 years only, but I don't need more time to realize that HP is not the company it used to be.
The explanation is very simple: The most money Mark saves to the company, the bigger bonus he gets.
Mark has never answered a customer phone call to fix a problem, or designed a new product for them. He just came in and sit on top of all of us.
He is not stupid, he knows we all need a job in this economic situation, so they use the workforce at the lowest price.
We don't need Mark, Mark needs HP to get those millions... at any cost. And with every new day, he is improving these techniques... For how long will we take it?
On behalf of HP, we’d like to provide some additional context about HP’s executive compensation in 2008, which we hope will contribute to this conversation.
Before discussing those issues, we would like to note that we have great respect for civil analyses and debates like the ones on your blog; we do our best to listen to feedback like yours and your readers, and hope to engage more in the future where we can add value.
- As you noted, HP has performed well since Mark joined the company in 2005.
- A high percentage of the total compensation paid to all the executives in 2008 was tied to long term performance; the figures you note in your post are primarily the result of HP’s significant achievements over the last three years
- This compensation is not reflective of FY2009 performance or of future performance.
Like you, Mark and the rest of HP’s executives agree that our people are our most important asset and hope to continue our success together as a team in 2009 and beyond.
Thank you for your thoughtful post.
Sincerely,
HP Communications Representative
What is obvious here is that HP's stellar performance over the past three years has come on the backs of tens of thousands of people loosing their jobs, even more being moved to the third world, systemic and institutionalized employee exploitation, and a result of executive behavior that is rapidly becoming socially despicable.
A truly great CEO would be able to strike the balance between ethical treatment of employees, suitable and sustainable profit for investors, and accountability to society for being allowed to consume the world's resources. Mark Hurd is not one of those.
If your employees are indeed your most important asset then why are you abusing them in a manner that contradicts your companies core values?
The pay rises in the past couple of years have been really poor regardless of my husbands great performance reviews and "promotions". I work full time, have two young children and really appreciated the help I did get from my husband. All this changed, constant travel, working late and even through the night. All for what would work out as an hourly rate of half the National Minimum Wage.
The impact of the economic down turn should have the same impact on life for all, starting at the top and I don't see this happening.
Hoorahs for Leonard Abess, the bank president from Miami who reportedly cashed out of his company, took a $60 million bonus, and gave it out to all 399 people who worked for him, plus another 72 who used to work for him.
-Elimination of Profit sharing for commissioned employees 3 years ago, complete elimination last year. It was the tie that bound us as employees. That used to be $3-$10K/year in the Bill and Dave era per person.
-HP Corporate United Way contribution cut 50%, soon to be 75%. Bill Hewlett helped found the organization in the US. Hurd has money for him and his friends but not for charity.
-Elimination of overtime for techs; severe reduction in stand-by charge for techs who have to carry a pager and subsequently can't leave town or have a beer on the weekend they have to carry it. For $15/day.....
-Serious reduction in Pension contribution. Top end went from 9% to 6% and soon to be further reduced...so unless you make $40M, you won't ever be able to retire
-Elimination of plants in offices to avoid plant maintenance contracts
-Layering of admin tasks on sales and technical staff to allow them to cut admin positions. So now a $100K'/year sales guy is spending 20 mins trying to ship a package. That makes sense...
Hurd's upper East-Side blue-blood aristocratic (fascist) roots are showing. Employees are mearly a cost to be minimized, nothing more, nothing less.
I met Bill and Dave. I had chit-chat's with Lew Platt and other C-level execs inthe 80's and early 90's. I would have walked through the gates of hell for those guys. I believed in them, in what they were trying to achieve and believed in the value of my role. Now, it's just another faceless ugly American corporation. Sad.....it's a Karmic universe though, there is solace in that thought.
I note that Mark Hurd's middle initial is V. I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet my 0.5% payrise that his middle name rhymes with Angina.
Constantly contracting benefits (will SOMEONE please produce a list for the last ~7 years--it would make interesting reading), reduced pay, zero raises, etc., have led us to the current program some term "Totaled Rewards." This includes a "Bone Us" that has been fairly ridgid in application. Every 6 months there is another BOHICA message (Wiki that).
I no longer open messages from HR--when I do I find it hard to sit for extended periods of time. And I pity that poor Marcela: when was the last time HR sent a happy message? I'll tell you: in 2006 all health (work out) facilities were opened to HP employees. You know, most of whom now work from home.
But, I'm still glad to have a job. Given that the Monkey US prez is plunging that once-great country firmly into a depression, I don't know how much longer I'll be employed. Sad all the way around.
I guess I'm thankful that I'm still employeed. HOWEVER, I feel like an idiot for wanting to believe that it could and would be better with HP. We knew it was all about money when the payouts for the EDS leaders were publicized after the sale to HP was approved. Again, why would it be any different with HP?
I'm not sure it's unions we need, but certainly its honesty, integrity and social consciousness that needs to return to our board rooms. How can any executive in America who has asked for their employees to work harder for less think they should be exempt because their fancy-pants contract says they can? I want to see the numbers. What does the 5% all employee pay cut equal? And if we're still profitable ($1.9 Billion), what does that 5% get us, more profit for the executives to split up for next years executive bonuses?
I like my job, I have to keep my job, but please don't make it a snow job.
Then last year it suddenly dawned on me when I read a banner on some intranet page and it just woke me up.
I don't remember the exact wording but it was the picture of a women, and next to it they quoted her saying something along the lines of "Why I stayed with HP even though i got a better offer somewhere else"
Probably the whole story was fictional, but that was not the point, the thing I realized was that I had never seen any company ever so openly admit to it's own employees that it needed to mention on their intranet through some crappy banner ad campaign why you should stay and work for HP and not move away. That was the point where I realized I would never get above the minimum of my pay grade and earn an "industry standard" wage by just working hard as long as I staid with HP, or as long as this type of management was in place. There are plenty of people in HP that have a more than average wage, I'm sure they have a lot to lose, but I was not payed according to market standards so I sought and found a better place to work. I resigned reluctantly, because I left good friends behind, but I had no trouble at all finding work for a better pay, at a much smaller company, with a lot less work pressure.
It's a pity since I know for sure HP has enormous potential through its employees, if only they were treated a bit better.
A lot of my friends still work for HP and I truly hope things will change for them, but honestly I don't see this ending well for the little guys.....
It is also about time employees across the globe unite, and wherever there is still some liberty for workers left, to let their voices be heard.
To the question to sacrifice 5%, I would like to suggest a unified "No we won't !" (instead of the famous Obama slogan "yes we can !").
Happy to still live in a country (Belgium) where employers cannot play this blackmail game, because that is what it is : outright blackmail.
And just like with a blackmailer, who sends you pictures in your mail, you know where it begins, but you never know where it ends.
Give 5%, with no guarantees whatsoever.
And what, tomorrow they 'll ask 10% ?
Wouldn't you, if all you have to do is make demands ?
What 's even worse, in our country, redundancy payments are calculated based on your last wages.
So give 5%, and right after that you could get fired, and you will have provided them with a discount once more !
BTW : Belgium is one of the two countries in Europe (Greece is the other one), which has what we call the "index", it is a system whereby a pool of products is used as a reference, and as soon as that weighed number passes a certain threshold, employees automatically receive an increase in their salaries as a compensation for the increased cost of living.
We do not see this as real pay rises.
Over the years this system has been watered down, however.
We now have a "health index" in which some important products have been removed, among those are tobacco, but also fuel products (diesel, petrol, LPG, etc.).
Secondly, in some industries, such as IT, this index is only granted once per year, with an average of price increases over a whole year.
We received this index only 2 months ago, after suffering price increases of 4.5% over a whole year.
And now HP wants 5% back of the new, increased number !
Over the years we have had many cut downs in many areas : company car benefits.
The company has been so greedy it cut down on every single aspect of the wages.
I see more and more people buying personal external harddisks in order to make a backup of company data !
People would never do that if they thought they could rely on the company's software to work reliably.
How greedy can you get as a company before you start creating damage to your own image ?
Oh, and as a final remark, it 's time to stop the internal propaganda.
Maybe some people in the US still believes that crap about the global village, but hey, Mark, is it because you love the 3rd World so much that you want to expand it to the whole of the US and Europe, by your endless Work Force Reduction programs ?
Beto M
Join your union & be prepared to stand together & take action.
Hey a-hole !
Where's our "long-term compensation for performance" ? We worked our butts off for the last 15 quarters and didn't get SQUAT, except for a measly bonus in 2008 which we will be giving back over the year 2009 thanks to the gracious 5% pay cut. Where were OUR raises when business was great , huh ? It's a@@kissers like you that make this company what Mark Turd turned it into.
I feel sorry for all of you who never had this experience ! We were a "HP-Family" and loved to work every single day. We were ready to undertake every effort to make this company successful. Looking how people are treated now-a days - mainly forced to just execute and shut up - who are demotivated overworked and under payed - I wonder how long this company will exist.
God thanks I'm retired !
Somehow additional key performance indicators (KPI) have to be introduced that do not reward selfish and bad behavior. The devil will be in the details but at the higher principle level here are some KPI that should be tied to the senior executive management of any public corporate entity:
1. Ability to meet business targets WITHOUT strategic redundancies (if a person is no good, then firing is a employer right to not go overboard on people power). So if redundancies go on, regardless of whether they met their objectives, the executives cannot have their optional performance based compensation disbursed and neither can they have their base compensation increased.
2. Ability to meet business targets WITHOUT reducing costs that directly come out of employee pockets. Reducing cost is a great thing, but just cutting salaries is sorta cheating if you get my meaning. Cost reduction for example could be a good program to make sure we save electricity by switching off computers before we go home (helps the environment too). So if business cost related targets are met only through "cheating" as defined here then executive cannot have their optional performance based compensation disbursed and neither can they have their base compensation increased.
In term of implementation one very simple way to bypass process and conflicting details would be to empower and expand the scope of Voice of the Workforce (VoW) which is a current process existing already. Enhance it to give employees world wide the change to effectively VOTE whether the above 2 have been violated or not. If the result of survey is xx% of employees believe violation occurred, then executives are not going to get rewarded beyond their base compensation and that base cannot be increased or changed (unless they voluntarily want to decrease lol).
That would be my 2 cents on what type of direction we need to look at with regards to public companies and how to "encourage" smart but usually naughty executives from making easy decisions just to look good and get more money. However if an executive can meet this more 'balanced' version of performance which clearly incorporates employee related "performance" then they do deserve to be the highest payed employees. No issue with that.
So after results the board of directors will basically build a case on behalf of the executives and present in the yearly report. Then during the yearly AGM shareholders will vote to approve or not. Same goes for golden parachute clauses. All executive employment contracts should have legal disclaimer to note any compensation related changes or disbursement can only be effected after shareholder direct approval regardless of any other clauses.
We have internet nowdays. No reason why every single shareholder cannot vote on such matters. I believe public company corporate governance is behind the times. We don't need a board of directors to have so much power. Let the shareholders directly decide via weighted vote (based on shares you own) on more company matters.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. More of the same old corporate bs.
HP employees have been getting the shaft ever since Carly and the board henchmen eliminated valuing employees from the "HP core values". I knew that the writing was on the wall when that occurred and then she drilled it home when she stated that "Employees had no God given right to a job."
Corporations do not value employees. We are a resource to be used up, burned out, and discarded. If they can cut cost of employees the rack-up bigger bonuses and more high profile worship from Wall Street.
Great technical engineering jobs were eliminated at our site and shipped to China. Mr. Hurd recently stated that the jobs will be located where the growth is -- that means China, India, and other developing economies. I will be disappointed but not be surprised to see the continuing decline in US and European HP jobs over the next few years. He also stated recently that HP management wanted to cut costs to be prepared for the economic downturn. I say "cut the crap" and "cut the bonuses". No one should get a bonus worth more than $100,000 EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I first went to work for HP in 1988 and was very proud of the company and the culture. I was WFRed in 2002 and now work for HP as a contract worker. And, yes, my pay has also been cut by 5%.
I think this whole economic problem CAN be blamed on greedy corporate executives of large companies. Here is what I think basically happened over the decade gone past:
1. To maximize metrics related to perceived company performance (usually stock price) senior executives took measures to lower cost. Primarily this lowering of cost came at the expense of taking wealth out of the employee base. Whether it be redundancies, off shoring, cutting benefits, no pay rises etc.
2. As a result of a natural human desire to live at a good standard of living (how dare we right?) the majority of American people offset the declining real wealth by living a higher percentage of their life on credit (credit cards, sub prime mortgages for houses etc). Also there was a short term benefit of decreasing cost of goods since stuff made in poor countries really is actually cheaper. Thus this real drop in wealth wasn't immediately obvious to all in America.
3. Due to economic prosperity from countries benefiting from the treachery of greedy executive types (eg. china) suddenly the level of global inflation started to rear it's ugly head. This came to a head in 2008
4. Roughly the same time, real wealth for average Americans had kept dropping and with a combination of the global inflation a point was reached when it was obvious to all the standard of living could not be maintained. People start defaulting starting with high risk loans ie the sub prime stuff.
5. Meanwhile the financial companies to maximize profits (greedy executives again) create new derivative based financial products which leverage heavily and carry associated risk but is packaged and re-packaged so many times the true level of risk and impact is underestimated by all. After all why be a "boring" investor loaning money to good business to grow when you can rake in fast money trading in stuff that seems to be created from heaven right?
6. Point 4 and point 5 hit each other.
7. The rest of the world quickly realize exactly how dependent the world has become. It is truly a global economy. Or more correctly a global economy driven by American consumers for the bulk. And BRIC countries for the icing. However with no America, the BRIC icing melts fast and is not very solid.
8. Back to greedy corporate executives. They react by taking even MORE wealth out of the majority of America and other countries by redundancies and cost cutting.
9. Who knows what happens next. A large extent will be decided on how the G8 country governments behave and get involved to right capitalism gone crazy.
I have a personal opinion that this might end up ok. Companies will get smaller hopefully as big companies default and break up. Smaller companies mean more jobs. Things might cost more, but real wages and employee concern will become facts and not buzz words. It could end up ok. Alternatively we might end up with french revolution scenario and bloodshed even in established and mature democracies if governments don't help guide a better future.
Anyways in conclusion let's just blame the greed corporate executives again for:
1. Betraying their own people (and I'm not even American and I say that)
2. Destroying their own country. No civilization can function without a viable economic system. It's not anger that has destroyed civilizations, its relative economic wealth.
Now it's time to make HP pay for destroying the existence (including their families) of these loyal freelance workers, contractors, agencies, hotels, restaurants, training institutes.....get an expert to calculate how to invoice HP for all past and present late payments and don't be afraid to invoice for cancellation fees (as this company also does).
HP has no Standards of Business Conduct (SBC) anymore, sadly.
In the past:
Happy employees = happy customers = business success !!!
Sabs
EDS used to be 'On The Wings of Eagles', now it is in the hands of Vultures.
P.S. Sadly US politicians and Media will not touch this problem because they are owned by these greedy CEOs.
Surely anyone who is laying people off from a profitable company, or moving roles off shore, can only be seen as a traitor?
I live in a country where we have a big inflation and since 2007 all employees have lost 35% from their salary due to inflation reasons. Because the salaries have been paid in the local currency and HP was in advantage never thought to offer any compensation as long as the salary pay was smaller and smaller each passing month. Everything was fine to them and everytime I raised this question in meetings the management was deaf and dumb to my requests and always invoked HP troubles.
The government taxes have also been recently rised and now, the last strike is this internal salary cut.
Imagine that no compensation has ever been offered for any of above mentioned salary decreases which seem to never end.
How would you feel if your salary would be today ~40% smaller than it was 2 years ago when you got hired ? How would you listen all the bulshit that management sells to you about career development and job recognition ?
I tell you how: FEELING THE BITTEREST TASTE OF DISSAPOINTMENT !
As a HP manager I currently have to listen to this crap and worse still hold a straight face as I roll it out to hard-working staff. I can't believe that you couldn't have done better than the usual poo with your reply to a NON-CAPTIVE and informed audience - this blog. Don't bother even trying is my advice - just show some leadership and question the disgusting practices yourself.
Wake up to reality folks!! If HP goes by Bill & Dave's principles in today's market, it will be another GM and file for bankruptcy or go begging ....
Time has changed, market has changed, economy has changed, nobody can afford to live with "fossilized" principles anymore !!
You all worry about "benefit" cuts, what about places where HP provides employment without most of those benefits ? Ever bothered to check whether they are unhappy ? And FYI, 70% of HP's revenue comes from such places and not US!
Having said that, yes, I do agree that the disparity in earnings is quite significant, and Mark is a bit overcautious (and arrogant). As people say, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". So I hope there are sane heads in the Board of Directors who can prevent him from going too far and kill the goose which lays one gold egg a day!
EDS folks - you all need to come down to reality, you may have been doing some great work in pockets, but your Management have not managed keep the company profitable, and as somebody said quite correctly, "You cannot boast about how great you have done while your numbers tell otherwise!"
Excellent Article Damian
Since 2005 HP's profit has being increasing by 2 digits. Many of the people I know have received 0 ... yes 0% as salary increase year over year.
Now that HP has lost 13.5% in the last quarter, all of us will have to "accept" a 5% salary reduction.
What happened with all the profits from 2005 to 2008?
Well, I guess they were busy buying companies and reducing the fuel on the company ¡¡¡
As someone from Costa Rica said, inflation in countries combined with no salary raised is like a salary reduction, but now this … is just an offensive action for all of us.
It doesn’t matter which country we are, everyone will be affected
**********************************************************
The real tragedy is the negativity and pessimism dragging down the spirit of so many hard working people. I spend so many hours working with these great people I just want to feel like I am part of something at HP!
I watched an old movie the other night called Executive Suite. I wish it could be screened for all the Executives at HP. When a business ceases to be about growing by creating useful, innovative and exciting products that satisfy public demand and instead focuses solely on short term financial gain it has lost its way.
Maybe balance is the answer. Fiscal responsibility is important but should executives be able to hit all their targets through "operational efficiencies" alone (cutting jobs, outsourcing jobs, reducing benefits, freezing pay, reducing bonuses, closing buildings and setting unreasonable internal targets)? Or should a significant portion of executive pay focus on truly growing the business? Perhaps there is a reason why my daughter has an iPOD, my wife an iPhone and all my neighbours Blackberries. Yes, I have been able to convince my circle of friends and relatives to own HP printers, laptops and PC's but that is old news!
Finally there is the question of Ethics. The HP Executive is draconian in their commitment to have every employee be refreshed in a business ethics course. I have studied ethics as an engineer and read some of the latest business theories on the subject. I remember reading a theory that talked about every employee taking a financial hit in hard times for the benefit of the business... but it also said those same employees would be the beneficiaries of financial gain in the best times. We all know that these same HP employees being asked to take a significant hit in personal income did not share in the bounty of HP's success over the past five years regardless of performance. That is not ethical.
This is where the rot started - and now she's "serving as McCain's lead public voice on matters economic". Thank God you guys didn't vote for John McCain is all I can say.
The most infuriating thing is that its not as though HP is on its last legs! We still managed to make $1.9 billion PROFIT in Q1. What this all equates to is corporate greed, and the sooner that people start to challenge this behaviour the better.
I joined HP 2.5 years ago and its the worst career decision I've made. No pay rise in this period (whilst meeting all my objectives and targets) and only a measly bonus in 2008.
It is not a good place to work, and I wouldnt recommend it to anyone. They Executive Team dont give a damn about employees, no matter how they dress things up.
I'm curious, so... what was the [low] percentage total compensation paid to all other HP employees in 2008 tied to?
And where is HP's "...great respect for civil analyses and debates...."? I found your reply very disrespectful.... it was a joke.... wasn't it?
How about a real reply from Mark about the mistake he has made and the voluntary increase in his and his executives pay-cut to match a true 20% - 15% of Total Remuneration. Only can you make sure it isn't a whole lot of smoke and mirrors like his first attempt?
Very (I can top you) sincerely,
A HP Employee Communications Representative (his wife)
I have cancelled my subscription.
Mark my Hurds, the day will come when such magazines relish with articles telling us what went wrong, remember the end of the Carly era?
Keep this site going for as long as necessary and good luck, I'm in your boat.
And we are on strike fpr our rights. For the actions in Germany have a look at http://www.eds.dgb.de
Let's fight for our rights against these greedy idiots!
1) Any ex-EDS employees really should be grateful that they have any form of employment. EDS was (an remains, culturally) financially, morally and ethically bankrupt and was 3 months away from going into chapter 11. EDS would not have survived the current global financial situation and if it were not for HP then every EDS employee would have much more that a 5% salary cut to worry about.
2) Any form of salary cut is a tax on the stupid. If you don't like it, leave.
3) Any comments re CPI, cost of living or similar are irrelevant. Would those who complain that their salaries in the past years have not been index linked be prepared to take a salary hit when their country goes into recession and CPI (or similar) is negative - I assume not.
4) Oh boo hoo to all those comments about HP not being the familiaral parent that it used to be when Fred and Mary started the company.....HP is not a family. I am not related to you, we do not share DNA. I have a real family that matters more to me - you should get one too.
5) No where in this blog as anyone mentioned customers. It is not Mark or "managers" who decides on salaries, it's the customers and some perspective is required. Product sales have declined 17% Q over Q. My guess is that Q2 will be worse. If customers don't spend money. Is a union going to get our customer back to it's previous spending levels? Should we protest at our customers because they are not buying aqs much. Don't our customers realise that their spending should, at least, keep pace with inflation ?
Mark and co. may have taken more than their apparent fair share. The board and shareholders are the arbiter in that, not the employees. If you want a say, become a major shareholder and take the risks that come with that or should someone guarantee you the $15/share you would have lost in the past months ?
I reiterate that a 1.9 billion dollar profit in twelve weeks is no legitimate reason to slash salaries by 5% especially when the equation at the executive level is not equitable.
Your mediocre response, underscored by the lack of contact details for further feedback or consultation just highlights the lack of back bone yourself and management have. You are after all one of the few people what should have nothing to fear about not commenting anonymously.
"- This compensation is not reflective of FY2009 performance or of future performance."
your quite right, how could it? Regardless, this has no impact on how the staff at HP/EDS have been treated in the past or the out look for the future,
"Like you, Mark and the rest of HP’s executives agree that our people are our most important asset and hope to continue our success together as a team in 2009 and beyond."
I don't think anyone here believes you, more than that I think we all noticed that no one aside from yourself has posted a positive comment about Mark, his board, or his decisions around his Staff.
Whilst many sympathetic and supportive entires to your blog may improve the profile of your well written article they do nothing to assist to address the problem.
The argument that if you don't like it you can leave is fair enough - and actually, I didn't like it and I left (WFR'd quite happily) - but the question given the unemployment situation right now is where?
I wrote this article because it was something I felt strongly about and wanted to get it off my chest. Although I had a good notion that it would prick a sore nerve I am surprised at the readership and the reaction.
I disagree that this does nothing to address the problem. It provides a forum for discussion, independent of anything provided by HP. It's the groundswell of opinion being expressed that will bring about the change.
Ultimately HP will be left with poor performing front line workers. Hurd won't care cause by then he will be gone and him and his inner circle will have made out like bandits.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3069/image1aj.jpg
HP stockholders and clients (especially EDS clients who are accustomed to sercive excellence) must realize that losing great people will eventually be the downfall of this company. The EDS culture has always been to go above and beyond for it's clients, and that was the Perot influence. We were proud of strong client relationships but that will slowly tank as more skilled and dedicated people are fired, and more outages occur. HP executives must be willing to risk service excellence either because they only care about their bank account, or dont have a good understanding of what makes a successful service oriented company. The salary cut didn't stop HP from reducing heads. More employees are about to lose their jobs this month!!
Great job Mr. CEO!
I didn’t see you complaining when you were in the fast track to senior management at HP. I didn’t hear you complaining when HP was paying for your MBA, but you couldn’t bother to finish. You certainly were not complaining when you were getting high pay rises, bonus for your fancy Rolex, and receiving your High Flyer Award.
You were promoted based on your brown nosing skills, lip services, and sweet talk. You were a polite and professional in front of your managers and peers, but you bully and intimidated those who were junior than you. You made no real contribution to HP and you were …… simply put it “bloody incompetent” in your job!!
Although I disagreed with Mark Hurd’s decisions, I do not think your article helped anyone. If you really want to help HP employees, then why don’t you bring this up to Mark Hurd directly in person or via a phone call? Or are you too scare to do so? All you have done is hiding behind your blog and promoted negative sentiment within HP.
Who is going to benefit from your blog?!
You need to know a couple of things though, the Rolex was a fake, I didn't ask for the award, I applied, and was interviewed for, every position I had, along with others.
I noticed that you also hide behind your anonymity and have you ever tried to phone Mark Hurd directly?
Large companies realy have lost perspective. And sadly shareholders have as well. in their drive to increase the bottom line, they forget the people that help them get the bottom line in the first place, the employees.
Management are the rudder that steers the boat, but that does not provide the motive power to drive the boat. The employee is the motive power of the boat. The shareholders are the passengers the ride the boat to wherever the management steers it and the employee drives it, the customers the fuel, they provide the means in which the company can be powered.
Now continuing with the boat analogy, The rudder can not power the boat. Without motive force the boat sits there bobing up and down in the water looking a might pretty but ultimately not taking the passengers anywhere.
If all the fuel is diverted to the passengers and the rudder, the motive force slows down. the boat slows down and the passengers take longer to get where they want to go.
What Turd is doing is restricting the fuel to the motor of the boat to try and divert more fuel into his own rudder and to the passnengers. Eventually the motor will stall.
Well i say lets STOP the boat. IF employees the world over go on a rolling strike for even 1 day. HP(EDS) will loose Millions if not billions of $$ in income for that day. Use sick leave plan Anual leave whatever but the employee needs to send a message to the Rudder and Passengers that if you take away our fuel the boat will STOP!!!.
I do think Damian's article has helped a lot of people. Anything that cuts through the corporate babble and lays out the facts so clearly is a help. If no one saw any value in it they wouldn't have bothered to respond in such numbers.
So although you disagree with Hurd you haven't got the bottle to take him on. You'll just criticise anyone who does. That just puts you on Hurd's side.
Plus when I see your rant against Damian's measured commentary and response I know who is the more credible.
Mark has downgraded himself from Leader to manager. I read recently “The first sign of failed leadership is employee disenchantment” and that could not be more applicable than here and now. To rally the troops they always wheel out the “HP Way” but that now is an insult to those who have gone before and those who still remain. They have created this reality of “us and them” and we are now merely a white collar sweetshop. My view, we have become mere cannon fodder in the battle to win the hearts and minds of the shareholders. They would argue that the business world has become this place and nothing can be done but as you said, it would take real leadership and courage to make a stand but with every dollar they pocket they lose the will and strength to be counted.
Most of us will have now received the “Proposal for Financial Efficiency” invites, which will soon become better known as the “sign-up or sign-out sessions”, and the reality is that every person who chooses to sign-up helps to turn the invisible groundswell into a ripple of discontent.
So before you make that decision remember:
1) Mark is donating approximately 0.68 percent so he can protect his bonus.
2) His direct reports are donating an average of 0.61 percent.
3) HP will not consider performance benefits to replace salary
4) You have no assurance this will not happen again in 6 months
5) HP will not restore your conditions when economic conditions improve.
6) It is much easier to make individuals redundant than business groups.
Your resistance could result in a trip through the exit lounge, but with enough of you on the plane you may just book Mark a seat as well. His will of course be first class.
SO NOW IT IS TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!!!!!
Having worked in IT for the past 30 years, my impression has been that the middle class white collar worker (and particularly the IT techy) is being slowly and steadily screwed by boards of directors everywhere. It appears to me that HP is just following (or perhaps leading) the trend... and where the corporates lead, most other companies tend to follow. And when it comes to salary packages, if the corporates decide (in their wisdom) that a specific skill is worth $xxx.xx per month, that tends to be what the market uses as it's marker.
The whole situation feels very much like the problems blue collar workers faced in the early part of the 20th century, where industrial companies exploited workers because they could. It took a number of decades of union activity (and a lot of heartbreak on both sides) to "balance the scales". I don't personally believe this is any different, and it looks to me like the only way this will be resolved is through a similar course of action... Techies of the world unite?
It is unfortunate that short term greed seems to be the overwhelming motivation behind most (all?) corporate decision making - the long term benefits to humanity and individuals (other than a notably select few) coming a long way second, unless you believe the lip service statements...
Any one else feel this way?
As an ex HP manager I totally agree on this one.
"With few exceptions most HP employees have not had a pay rise, or anything other than a measly token gesture, in the past three years despite their workload, and the company profit, increasing significantly."
"HP Employees who are promoted into new roles with higher accountability, more work and more stress do not receive an immediate remuneration increase in line with the new position."
Those two where the main reasons why I left HP. I loved to work there, but cr*p salary doesn't pay my mortage etc..
I fully agree to most (as I did not read all).
One piece of advise. Writting is good for ventilation. Doing is better for the soul. Instead of just writting, people need to do. Now is not a time to be left unemployed, but when the economy gets better, and people will have alternatives, they should take them and leave HP !!!
The pay back is to leave HP. The revenge is not to buy HP products. To tell everyone the truth about HP and its managers.
But lets face it, this will never happen. The problem is that people are first individuals and fear for their skin. They lost values like "all for one and one for all". There is no employee power. The unions are fake. They too only take care of their own and themselves. There is no true respect for other people. There are no longer values of collectivism and community. Everyone for himself is the game now.
The change has to come from a deeper place. A place of conviction that we are all entitled to a good life. A place of true respect and humblness. Only than will we see an equal society. The managers may earn more, but not so much more. A scale shall be developed to limit manager's compensation to 10 times the lowest salary in his/her organization. Only than will employees be a real integral part of the companies they work in.
Till then, we are in the hands of the rich and the powerful, as money decides our life.
You say something very pertinent - : “it’s about reaching a balance between ethical and sustainable profit, without exploitation of people, and showing respect to the societies that allow the company to exist.”
If you read a book by Danah Zohar entitled” Spiritual Capital” you will read exactly that. In the book HP does get good press but it was written a number of years ago and things have changed dramatically as you know. I’m sure a new release would produce a different message.
She talks about the lack of leadership in Business and how those who remain get trapped by the fickle world of share markets which is now not even a main focus but the only focus and certainly is not a sustainable structure.
I really used to put in everything for this company and our customers. What made me ‘turn around’ was what happened to me in 2007. In January 2006 I got promoted due to a new job and started on a new job level. I started at the beginning of the payscale (band1). To put things in perspective, the band goes from 1 to 5 and band 3 is the market average for your job. In the job I got assigned a project I worked on about 10 hours per day. I really did great, worked hard and all the feedback was perfect. I never reported overtime for this. Project met all the goals, budget and timelines. So, personal evaluation time came. I got a ‘K’ (Best ranking, key performer). The salary increase I got being a top performer was 2.6% !! This was the best in the team according to my manager. I was shocked, disappointed and angry! The inflation was on 3% this year, but local workers council manage to get HP to spit in 1-2% more to make up for this. Needless to say all my inspiration was gone! I decided to stick around for some time, less inspired hoping they would make up for this. We all know where this went and I am still in B1 and paid 30% under market average for what I am doing.
I know that some of you are thinking, well, why don’t you just leave? Well, I have an extensive network in HP which makes me in theory a valuable asset. I also really like working at HP as there are some great people here. However, I do realize I am getting ripped of big-time, so yes, I will leave!
I was just contemplating about the number of benefits that have decreased from this company. Let’s have a recap from 1999-2009 from the European country I work in. Obviously except that we don’t get salary increases anymore, here are the other benefits that have been cut:
-Earlier you were allowed to travel on business class if you had several intercontinental flights per year. This option is completely gone and requires VP approval.
-If you connect your laptop to check your email from the hotel, be expected to cover the costs by this yourself if the hotel charges this as ‘pay service’. (Our expenses team thinks this is pay-tv). And, you are expected to pay for your own water. (Mini bar not allowed).
-You had official salary negotiations twice a year. May and November. This was to get you quicker up to market value (middle-of-the-band). These ‘talks’ are now reduced to once a year.
-Company car benefits decreased. Several job levels had their company car removed and also the car model selection got stricter.
-Profit sharing replaced by a ‘company performance bonus’. No-one knows where the bar is set for a payout and you have absolutely no control if your organization makes this or not. You can work and give 150%, your project can save millions of dollars, but it all doesn’t matter if some other sub-BU don’t make the ambitious goals.
-Stock options are no longer given out to the majority of employees. (You have to have a job level of ‘master’ or above). If I’m not mistaking, ‘e-awards’ was introduced to make up for parts of this. This ‘package’ was not so attractive and not really a replacement. Well, hey, e-awards are also gone now.
-Earlier the stock purchase scheme was very attractive. The stocks were bought with a 15% discount at the lowest stage DURING a 6 month period or so. This was then changed to a 15% discount either at the start or the end of the purchase period. Now Mark Hurd removed the whole 15% discount option.
-Relocation schemes are practically gone. Earlier you were encouraged to apply for jobs in other countries. If you were the right candidate HP would pay your relocation. It was also in place for giving employees unique education and also seen as an investment of HP in their workforce.
-No more face-to-face/classroom trainings. All trainings replaced with virtual trainings, which needless to say are not the same quality.
-There is no more job security. You are a resource and resources should be cut to the bone. You or your manager has no influence over this at all. It doesn’t matter if you are a ‘key performer’ or not.
-We had an attractive membership plan to a health club next by our office building. This benefit was also removed and replaced with a not so attractive discount card.
-Before your ‘PE’ (Personal evaluation) used to matter to the employee. Employees and managers went through the PE on a regular basis and made sure that your items for training and personal development were met. This is no longer the case and the only item that is ‘controlled’ is if your manager did actually have your FPR (Which is the new name for your yearly evaluation.) What it contains no longer matters. Managers are not controlled on the content of development, only if it took place.
-The AMEX corporate card was allowed to be used for personal purchases as well. This was a nice gesture as you didn’t have to pay the yearly fee for the card. Of course this was removed and also the point savings system was no longer allowed.
We still have some semi attractive offers on buying HP equipment from time to time. Also, you are allowed to use your mobile phone to make a small amount of personal calls. I do expect these benefits to be removed soon though.
Also, if you put the loss of benefits into a spreadsheet you will get a trend-line which clearly goes all the way down to the right. If you were to do the same with the director-level and above jobs the trend line will obviously go the other way. Up, up and up!
What comes to mind here is the management techniques that were used in the beginning of the last century. We as employees are seen as a resource, are not to be trusted and seen as an expense (Mark Hurd must be a big fan of Mc gregors theory x.). Well, you get my points. Do NOT start your career in this company…Thanks all
I will quit soon. I can not bear to work for such a unsocial company and greedily management like HP.
Hope lot´s of key employees will do so. hp/eds will get into big trouble in within this strategy.
egards, peter
thanks for this comment. It is just the facts everybody knows but some never will understand. We at EDS/HP in Germany have the same understanding, the same problems but nobody is there to stand up and say something except the employees. The so called "management" has not enough moral fibre to do it. I´m not sure on which university they had their economical lessons but it couldn´t be a good one.
It´s good to see that even if we are on different time zones we have the same understanding.
Best regards
MytwoCents
Let's hope Mark is able to identify all these bad apples (including the commentators here) and throw them out!
Never in our HP history have we ever dreamt of bad mouthing our CEO publicly. It is like throwing dung on your parents face in a Mall, even if they have kicked you out of the house because you were an addict!! Your parents may be good, not so good, or bad, but nothing justifies publicly abusing them.
This blog, started by a WFR'd guy and being greedily eaten up and contributed to by his likes, including some obscure weblinks (which probably nobody knew exists) is nothing but a reflection of the poor EDS culture which we hopefully can cure.
"Oh, lord ... they know not what they do. "
HP Communications Representative..." high percentage of the total compensation paid to all the executives in 2008 was tied to long term performance"....
HOW DARE YOU..... Where the hell have been OUR rewards for the work done year in, year out, eh??? NO ...NOTHING...becuase by the time the bucket of money reaches the front line in HP Service... there is sod all left.
Here in the UK we dont have cost of living payrises, and for 10 "effing" years you (HP) have shafted us, while you continue to rely on the human nature of wanting to support our peers and our immediate manager. Well...NO MORE !!
This is nice to see that someone at HP doesn't agree with the pay cut. I am at HP since 2004 and I can't bear that we are treated like idiot. I won't accept the cut, not because of the money. This is a question of value, colleagues of mine were fired last week, others will be fired next week, I don't trust the managment any more and don't agree with the values there. I hope this crisis will bring us to a more human way of working and living.
Above you said the following VERY IMPORTANT STATEMENT to justify all the Bonus and all those inmoral and unethic practices of the HP Top Management:
"- As you noted, HP has performed well since Mark joined the company in 2005."
You evidently DID NOT NOTE that a company like HP (or EDS) is performing well thanks to the work of the thousands of people you are dismissing or cutting their salaries. Otherwise you could not treat 'us' they way you do...Honestly , I think and feel you simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND what we are talking about in this Blog.
Sincerely
A Swiss EDS/HP employee
I thank you again very much for your article and various contributions. And from my point of view, you don't even need to discuss with that anonymous
guy that seems to be a 'paid agent'. Maybe that's the new strategy of the HP Communications Representative who are otherwise unable to deal with all the FACTS you brought up and the understandable emotions they have to face. Everything what they can do is follow the guide that 'attack is the best defence'.
To the anonymous 'unbeliever': Damian's article is not at all bringing up negative sentiments within HP - this merit belongs to Hurd and the Top Management, their 'Uncommunications Representatives' and their employees like you.
Mark & the Board have played the system and won. I say good for them. The old HP is dead and gone, it's not like they ruined anything.
--ed
It's not the 5% reduction that pisses us off; it's the inequity!!!!!!!!!! We have gone through this before and the anger wasn't nearly as evident. People didn't like it, but we knew that management was responsible and were not taking as much advantage as the current team.
The rich have been and still are getting richer and the rest of us are just getting the "trickle down" and you know it's just crap that trickles down.... Corporate titans need to come to the realization that no one is worth what they are being paid whether it is salary or bonuses or perks or stock options or whatever!!!
The global economy is telling them and us that, but corporations and the rich are not going to adjust. They have their hooks into the system and will hang on as long as possible until we the people stand up to them. It appears that they will not do the right things until forced to.
Don't blame your immediate manager.
Things had gone down ever since Carly showed up. Everyone was hoping that things would improve when she got the boot. Unfortunately they just went downhill when Hurd the Turd showed up. I knew someone at NCR (Hurd's former company) and he said that Hurd was hated and despised for his layoffs, workload dumping and screwing pensioners of their health care benefits. Hurd apparently used that as a template for his new job at HP.
I couldn't believe how low morale was at HP when I was let go. Every year HP would have an employee survey and one of the questions was "would you leave the company if you could get the same wages and benefits elsewhere". In my department, just over 70% answered yes to that question. A friend of mine is a store manager for a national chain and he said that if he had such a number at his store, the head office would have flew in some HR people from head office to investigate what the hell was going on. At HP, no one at the top gives a damn.
My former boss was once in a group conversation with Randy Mott, the VP in charge of IT. Randy Mott blew his top and started screaming at someone on the east coast. Previously his nickname was the $24 million man (his salary), his new nickname is now the screamer. Randy Mott came from Dell and lived in Round Rock, Texas. He was told to move to Houston and offered a million dollars for moving expenses. He refused. HP would later build a multi-million computer center in his part of the world because this guy refused to move. What a waste of HP shareholder's money.
Randy Mott also excels at exporting jobs to other countries. My job went to India and East Europe.
HP is a disgraceful company to work for. HP employees need a union to look after their interests. I invited the Communication Workers of America to start a union drive at HP. What would HP employees have to lose? Their salaries have been frozen for years (and now cut), benefits have also been cut, when people leave, their workload doesn't go with them, it just gets dumped on the suckers that remain. I would also like to see some legal group file a class action lawsuit against HP for their targeting of older workers.
If Bill and Dave were alive today, they would have fired Carly and Mark for their unethical behavior.
Please update asap.
I have cancelled my subscription to Fortune...obvious why!
"Mark my hurds" you've hit the nail on the head...only a Q of time!
Any updates, or what ultimately happens, is up to you, you can send a clear message that, as an employee you demand that a balance be struck between doing the right thing for the company, and treating employees with respect. You know that's not hapening right now.
Either way the end of the next quarter will have it's own story to tell.
Over to you
Congratulations on presenting a powerful, concise and content heavy response to the pending HP Pay Cuts. It is in total contrast to the typically vacuous content free message from the HP Communications rep on this blog and the messages we receive internally from our senior management within HP at the current time.
I agree with the majority of the replies to this article. However what strikes me as the essence of the problem within HP in recent years is the fundamental lack of fair play and is typical of what is happening in society today. The select few at the top of the pyramid are getting richer at the expense of the mass of middle class professionals. No one begrudges a leader of a company or business unit being rewarded for outstanding performance so long as the staff working for those leaders are judged on performance along the same lines and are rewarded themselves on a fair basis. This stopped happening in HP about 4 years ago.
Hard work, commitment, integrity, excellent service are not tangible assets that HP recognise on their accounting spreadsheets therefore they do not value their people any more.
A coup d'etat at the top is the only way to get rid of the Turd!
Thank you for offering an alternative opinion; this blog was looking a little one-sided, but there's a good reason for that. You see, this blog carries the opinions of managers, professionals and general staff members who realise that something is rotten and has begun to smell rather offensively in this world, and is only being highlighted by the current recession, not caused by it. Thankfully this blog enshrines the informed opinions of "the majority 70%" in modern democratic capitalist society who (to a greater or lesser extent), are beginning to realise that a terrifying genie was let out of the bottle since Reagan came to power in the 80's (using Southern US racist fear within the white community to fuel his voting base, but that's another revolting story). The "movement republicanism" of the last 30 years has both generated the current recession, and the loathsome voracious rich who drove it and are still trying to feed on the carcass in spite of the collapse. To wit Mark Hurd / Carly / other clever vultures - these are the 1% who sit at the top and scornfully look down on the engine referred to in the above bloggers excellent boat analogy. But I sense your anger and, yes, curiosity perhaps - what about the other 29%? Well (besides a bunch of people who don't care, and a bunch of other inheritance-rich folks, that group is made up of people like you..........who were fed the corporate BS and swallowed it whole, who voted republican even though those turkeys sold you out, while feeding the top echelons of the rich and undermining true democracy to a scandalous extent.
I was like you for many years and so have some sympathy with your "outrage" - how did I wake up and become enlightened you ask? Well Mr Hurd helped me - my instinct flared when he did this disgracefully unfair act, even though I can easily do without the 5% to be honest. So I began to research a little and it led me to US history of which I knew little before. I learned of the gilded years around the turn of the century, the feasting of the "Robber Barons" and the subsequent great depression, and then the genious of Roosevelt's "New Deal", and the fair society that emerged in the 40's to the 70's, and how the greedy rich jumped on the 70's recession to turn the clock back and start the gorging at the trough again. Well now the banker-guzzlers have gorged at the trough and thus precipitated a shocking collapse, but Mr Hurd and his ilk have a couple years of guzzling left from idiots like you, before they cash in and sit back with their pampered offspring to laugh at the general populace and wait for the next cycle. So it's Capitalism when the rich are in a feeding frenzy, and Socialism to clean up the mess they create. And there we are Mr. "I do not believe...." - you are either (a) very rich or (b) very gullible.........
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/o...
It is a country torn in half. In my opinion without the Haves, the have nots have even less because the haves will not be haves anymore. Why will they continue to make gobs of money when it is just taken away? Use your brains too, not just your hearts.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c6c5bd36-0c0c-11de-b8...
Superb blog Damian, you've not just touched a nerve, you've released a little democratic indignation which was WAY overdue!
Time for a change people, you'll not get anything further from HP in the year's ahead,mind you, like the rest of us, youve probably had nothing in the past year's as well.
Well done Mark, thought you'd be good for us, oh how wrong we can be.
To those of you, especially the newer ones, who plan to stay with HP – be warned. Do not fall into the trap of believing that one day things will get better for YOU. I stayed for 7 years thinking that one day my pay would go up. It didn’t, and was always below industry standard. There are no financial incentives for foot soldiers. Screwing you is actually one revenue stream upon which the executive can base their success. So when they freeze wages, off-shore and sack, their pay goes up. Do you want to be a part of that?
Unless the entire employee base can mobilise as one and take action, nothing will change. Viva La Revolution.
As a sales rep who joined HP a few of yrs ago, I'd like to point out a couple of things..
1) Alot of the vitirol is coming from EDS people.. Perfectly understandable - they worked for a large IT svs business with very large public sector contracts into the $billions... Plus a few car makers as well (and we all know how they are doing). Let's face it - EDS was up for grabs (HP paid a premium), and that would always mean workforce issues.. I don't necessarily agree with it, but there are worse players out there than EDS, who may have found more job duplication (who I will come on to)..
2) I used to work for IBM. They have a different attitude to HP in all this. IBM will just tell everyone that time are tough, and that there are no pay rises or bonuses - this has been happening since approx. 2002 (I experienced this).. So, to those HP employees who haven't had a payrise in a while - join the camp of your biggest competitor.. IBM's repsonse is not to issue any statements whatsoever.. In IBM, you just find out your friends don't exist anymore, and that they have moved onto a new career direction. Mark Hurd may be (haven't expereinced it yet) brutal.. He may get paid far too much... I'd rather some semblance of honesty (and yes - I am as cynical as you lot - he may ask for the pay cut and still fire us all), but HP is still better than the lying public service (mgrs) at IBM.
3) To the HP HR person who came onto this forum- if that's the best you have to say, I'd stay in the cave where all you HR people live - if you don't come out, you can't issue redundancy notices (not sure what else you lot do, but heh).
4) As for the senior execs, it's all about the money.. That is what they are paid to do.. If your task is to improve the SLA by 20%, and you do it - get a bonus, keep your job (but that's the problem right).. Mark's job has 1 real remit - shareholder value. End Of. Guess what - that is why he was hired - to make the most of the Carly Fiorina fiasco.. If he spends most of his time flying around with the missus, but still delivers the numbers and has the answers, his bosses are going to be happy (ish).. It's an in-equal world (as much as I hate that inequality), but unless you want a French revolution, not alot is going to change.. He's going to get richer.. we just hang onto our jobs.
5) I'm not sure how to take the pay cut stuff.. It's the gamble - do you agree, and feel like a muppet when noone else does, or do you risk the blacklist of people who refuse? If anyone (preferably a senior d/b in HP with access to whatever HR database they're building on this) can tell me how much this is monitored, then can you give me an idea?
If you don't like what's going on, organize a union and do something about it. Wait, that's not the HP way. The HP way is to sit around and bitch while never actually contributing to anything worthwhile.
Most of us in the real world are sick of hearing HP whiners bawl about things at HP. You've had it too easy for too long and now when it gets tough you can't take it.
Sympathy- you'll find it right between shi* and syphillis in the dictionary.
Get tough or get out. Looks like the decision is being made for you.
The other side of the blade is that the paycuts aren't even going to save us from WFR's anyway. I've been informed that the target expectation for those who are going to take the paycut in order to avoid WFR's is 100%. 100%? You have to be kidding! No WAY can you possibly expect 100% of your employees to take a paycut. So this is basically saying that Paycut or otherwise, there ARE going to be WFR's, although Hurd is cleary trying to say that the Paycuts are going to avoid / reduce it.
The more that companies take this action to "Weather" the recession, the more damage they are doing. Even the word "Pay Cut" makes employees spend less. Even the good ol' "WFR" makes people terrified of losing their jobs so they aren't going to spend money just in case they need whatever cash they have to find a new job.
Like you said Damian, this is happening everywhere, not just HP/EDS. As everyone takes these kind of drastic measures, the recession gets worse. It feels as if companies are saying "Well, the recession isn't my fault, let the Government fix it". If you are a member of society, you are part of the recession i say. A recession occurs when people don't feel safe to spend money. People don't feel safe to spend money because they feel their jobs are at risk. People's jobs are entirely controlled by their employers so why do companies feel they have no responsibility in this entire crisis!
I feel insulted and decieved, like i am being treated like a stupid sheep of an employee. Under EDS, i put up with it because in some small way, i felt valued. My Management could look after me, if i had a concern, i could talk to them and feel inspired to work again. But when my management says "I'm sorry, I don't know", what do you do? the whole situation is horrible, and i see it in my TL eyes. He's stressed, he has his employees scared about their jobs so he is trying to keep morale up and stop negative rumours going around. But the rumours aren't unfounded rumours, they're there for a damn good reason.
All of this, and my TL wonders why i "Bag-out" HP?
Give me a damn good reason why i shouldn't!
Token raises every few years, meanwhile promotions meant more responsibility with the same pay. Further no cost of living increases meant by the time I left HP, I was, in essence, making the same, if not less than when I started 8-9 years previously.
The 5% pay cut just makes me sad for my colleagues that are still there.
In the end, I loved working at HP. The reason is simple: the people. When you lose that, you lose your soul as a company. It's not the same HP, and I'm afraid it never will be again.
A. To fill the endlessly deep pockets of the dictatorship at the top.
Hell, I 'm not willing to give any more money to those greedy bastards.
B. To pay for redundance fees of other employees being fired.
Why would I have to pay for this ? Let Mark pay it.
C. To see stock prices right.
I don't own HP stock, so I don't care.
D. (this is the most perverse reason) : to make sure HP has more cash.
What will they do with that cash ?
You guessed it, buy other companies, which again leads to more jobs being made redundant.
In my opinion (and this is quite ironic), the best thing that can happen for the employees is for HP to do less well.
As you have seen before, if the company does well you do not get your fair share from it, on the contrary more and more of your benefits are being cancelled, if it doesn't do well, it 's exactly the same thing.
So there is no benefit to be gained from the company doing well.
Also, if the company has less cash flow, that means it will no longer be able to purchase other companies, which after a while will mean that they 'll have to stop firing people.
So I don't care for the company anymore, and that will be my revenge.
I 'll still do my job, but I won't give it my 100% percent anymore.
And if they give me too many bad FPR's, of course, I 'll be fired, but I won't take the initiative to leave.
I live in a country where there are still redundancy payments (if you get fired, not if you leave yourself), so it 'll cost them dearly.
Over here, unions have advised everyone to simply say 'NO' to the proposal.
Hurd and his henchmen don't realise it yet, but they have become so brutal, and they think that everyone is still very scared of them.
What they don't realise is that Hurd will be like Egon Krentz (last chairman of the DDR), and that soon workers will be shouting 'Wir sind das Volk !', tearing down the Berlin Wall.
Oh yes, some Americans might be shocked that I am comparing a communist leader to an ultracapitalist leader.
But just think about it, there 's a lot of anology there.
Both only pretend to be doing the best for their people, meanwhile enjoying a life of decadent luxury, at the expense of all the rest below them.
And while Egon Krentz is already part of history books as the last representative of a system that ultimately failed, so will Hurd soon be.
This 5% paycut may turn out to be the last straw, and may lead to strikes or other social upheavings.
The consequence will be that the price of stock may take a fall, after which greedy shareholders will demand an explanation, and a remedial to the problems.
It is at that point that it will become clear even to Hurd that people are more than simply cells on a spreadsheet, but he won't be able to deal with that.
Hurd is a one-trick pony, all he knows is "cut costs, cut costs, ...".
And that will be his downfall.
Well, downfall, he 'll be given a golden parachute, and set off to ruin some other company.
If you want to criticise an organisation when should you do so ?
1. Before you work there ?
If you do so, you surely will be criticised because 'you don't work there, so you don't know what you're talking about'.
2. While you work there ?
If you do so, you 'll certainly be criticised for being ungrateful to the organisation that pays you.
3. After you have worked there ?
If you do so, you 'll be told that you were a bad performer, and that 's why you got fired or that you left, and this is your revenge...
So the bottom line is that you can never speak out without being criticised.
There will always be some that will say you should have spoken out earlier, or instead wait a bit longer until you no longer work there.
I am directly affected by what you describe. And I live in a country that has a peculiar life standard. Prices that compare with the one in Brussels for example, and average salary lower than in Romania. And we're part of the EU. Guess where am I. So lowering the salary here, in times when the cost of the US dollar rises respective to our national currency is a bit um..., how do you say it?
The good thing is that both HP and IBM have established large sites in my country for the still excellent price/quality performance for services. That gives the country highly trained, skilled people that any other major IT player can take advantage of when the first one leaves. In the light of people toppling bad management, I think this is quite relevant.
As for outsorcing or simply opening sites abroad... Common, this is not a katana, it is old stuff double edged broad sword. I moved in HP just because my ex company moved to...Kansas! Kansas man, can you believe that? IT in Kansas...
Oh btw HP is currently blocking the access to your site from within the corporate network. You are a force my friend...
In Holland, when buyouts were offered, they had to be offered to everyone (some weird government rule). At one location, 24 out of 30 field engineers took the buyout (even though HP didn't want that many to leave). That should give you some indication of employee dissatisfaction that exists at HP. HP once was considered a great company to work for. Not any more, its just another hire and fire company. No one feels loyalty to this miserable company.
Recommended reading on incentive pay and bonus programs and what could be the alternative.
W Edwards Deming, The New Economics, ISBN 0-262-54116-5
Alfie Kohn, Punished by Rewards, ISBN 0-618-00181-6
Recommended reading on international capitalism.
Naomi Klein, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, ISBN 0-312-42799-9
Oh, btw, did you know that the words "economy" and "ecology" share the same ethymological origin? There is a subtle balance in both, which raw capitalists tend to turn the blind spot of their eye towards.
/Per
I was a fresh pre acquisition US EDS employee at the beginning of last year and felt at the time of my hire that EDS was a solid company and that I could possibly spend several to many good years working here... that is until I got wind of the takeover. I've worked for several other companies that have been bought out by larger companies during my past employment and things never seem to get better after the mergers. The benefits get cheaper, the morale declines and the bureaucratic wheel spins faster and wilder.
As far as anyone asking what the benefits of EDS being an HP company now are...all I have to say is that you can pretty much guarantee Ron Rittenmeyer got his golden parachute when he hocked EDS. If HP were a shadow of what it used to be I'd say there would be plenty of incentives, but that oasis has long since dried up as is sadly the status quo for large corporations nowadays.
My sympathies definitely go out to the HP and EDS employees of old though due to HP continuing to turn the knife and giving all their non upper echelon employees the shaft while the blue bleeding EDSers are now sharing the Kool-Aid of Doom with them. I know a lot of lifers for both companies would probably love to quit at this very moment, but due to constraints caused by the economy's horrible employment situation, and by everyone being held by the balls due to little things called retirement and severance packages, they're forced to choke this down.
What really makes me sad though is that no one I've talked to really seems to think that there's anything we US employees can do to avoid this or stand up for ourselves. I don't have the resources or the contacts to make anything happen but would be more than willing to participate in something (non-terrorist activities of course!) if someone out there could organize something in retaliation to the nonsense ankle grabbing everyone's being forced to do.
Sure I'm aware that a lot of other companies do the same crap, but a precedent has to be set sometime doesn't it? There's just no excuse for this shoddy leadership everyone's having to endure.
What grates me the most is HP's continuous lies. A big factor of being a HP employee was the possibilities it said it offered us as employee's to work with new technology & beta software by the large software houses. Thats gone, unless you want to spend your already busy work schedule doing a silly webinar. Training has gone, or as HP put it "Train has been put on hold" what for 3 years?!?!?!
Another HP gem is the fact that they say if you take the pay cut of 5% they will endeavour to reline your pay at the soonest point. Thats a big fat never then. They have cut back on so many things so as to save money but there is no way of coming back for all this cost saving. They won't want to re-instate eAwards, training, pay-rises and business travel as it will eat into their costs.
As for bonuses, why the hell did they pay out this year?? Why not say we won't pay the bonuses this year rather then hitting everyone with a 5% pay cut. Oh yeah thats right because all the twits mentioned above have huge bonuses paid out to them. I see one way for HP to go and thats down the pan in the Outsourcing world. They will always be a printer maker and nothing more.
It was the worse thing my original employee could have done to fall into HP's trap and outsource us. Now they are over charged under serviced and tied in.
Id like to share with you that as a contractor for HP Australia i've been told there is no chance moving up i have max of 2 years and them im thrown away no matter how good i am but as of today the 10th at work i was informed that i must take a 10% paycut. I was told it was my choice then they said i don't have a choice.
Im more annoyed as a contractor as i am paid low compared to the HP guys in my field and have been told that they are taking a 5% pay cut yet im earning less and have to take 10% off my wage which is horrible.
From snooping around trying to see if i will see anything happen to me i've be hinted that without taking the paycut i will be let go and someone will be hired on a less wage to do my job.
I've seen my friends been fired and seen talent and knowledge thrown out and now we are running on new people who don't have any knowledge or guidence it's become a joke they aren't trained at all and it's dropped the level we worked at to way below what we should be doing and had really just made a point of hp not caring and just waiting for one of the offshores to take all our jobs.
I am very disgusted with HP and am ashamed of how we have hurd doing this to us and trying to sugar coat it like we have a choice it's take a cut or be fired.
If this was on the "up and up" Hurd would:
1) Give back the cuts when HP financials hit x, y and z.
2) Give us stock options to make up for the cuts.
3) Take zero pay/bonus/stock until the pay cuts were given back. His $68M would tide him over.
BTW...More cuts are on the way. So much for this forced pay reduction saving jobs.
His Auntie Thora would be turning in his grave
Here is my view -
The company is trying to stay on top, stay profitable and does not want to allow itself to go loosing money. Once the company starts loosing money - the cuts would be much more severe.
I look at it this way - in good times, i have a maid, i have a driver and i have my car washed 3x a week, a gardener etc.. Once bad times come and im shorter of income, even though i could still pay all these people (and have less) I might probably say - sorry, need my car cleaned 1x a week, maid stays, but she only cleans half and gardener should only come 1x a week instead of 2x a week. Sorry - no need for the driver. I simply react to the situation - and this is what HP is doing - reacting to the situation. What might happen, is that I ran out of money and i'll have to say to all the people who help me out - sorry guys, i can no longer afford you - and they will all have to go. More importantly and tragically - i might have to say to my wife - sorry hun, no new shoes this week :))) Cant have this happen. Just as HP can not afford itself to slip into loosing money. Needs to react. Would it be better if HP simply ignored the situation and go business as usual? I dont think so.
Yes, would be nice if Mr. Hurd would say what Damian suggests - but this is what a politician would say, or a union leader, not a business man.
Im sorry - but i have learned that there is no heart in the corporate world and it is nothing personal. In a way its good - because we go to work to make money and of course fulfill our ambitions etc.. but in the end of the day, i dont think Mr. Hurd or anyone would look at you badly if you say - Sorry - got a better offer, im off. Thats understandable, an individual is looking for its own good, just as a company is looking to preserve its business. Cold-hearted, i know, but that is how the world operates nowadays. The sooner we understand it, the better maybe.
Socialism might not get a private company very far - look at Cuba or post communist countries. Where did those businesses go? It starts out with a very noble idea - lets all have jobs, lets all work for the good of everyone, lets all make same kind of money, lets not have super-rich and super-poor. Thats all nice, but then the reality is that the whole system collapses and EVERYONE besides very few lucky ones ends up on the floor poor and unhappy. This has proven to be true in basically all post-communist countries and countries where communism still rages (cuba or north corea shiny examples).
I however understand what you guys mean - on an individual level, its a tragedy if someone looses a job, its really sad to see a pay-cut and all...but MAYBE if there were not paycuts/no job-cuts - MAYBE much more people would end up on the street.
I am an HP employee and will sign the paycut. of course i dont like it, but i understand why its there. Its a reaction to a situation, its nothing personal. In the mean-time i'll be looking for a company which is ready to pay me more.
I was wondering if HP, as a leader could maybe have the muscles enough to say - YES, we stand by our employees at this difficult time and this way maybe show they care about other things than just the money, but i guess the time has not yet come for this. Once the time comes, i will say - HP - I will work here no matter what offer i get, because i believe in you.
And lastly - to Mr. Hurds'/senior management hefty bonuses - well...Mr. Hurd is managing one of the biggest companies in the world and he has done a great job, I'm sure you will all agree. HP is positioned well and has grown, so I do understand the pay needs to be equivalent. How much more moral is it for a dude kicking a ball around to get even double than HP CEO? All he does is chase a ball and kicks it the right way. Isnt that immoral? Or a person who smiles on a camera and pretends he's someone else and gets even more than 100M/year? Do we ask these people to return their earned money? NO we dont and it is the right thing we dont.
Unfortunately, clear decision making went out the door two years ago. I had overachieved my revenues by 20% and made sales that were 3x my quota. My peer that kept his job did not meet any quotas that year. Since my departure, sales last years in my former area did not even amount to six figures.
HP and EDS are not alone is this bizarre decision conundrum. I've had companies give me verbal offers only to withdraw them due to budget contraints and leave their entire US business operations without leadership. So my response is to continue to build my own business and exemplify the leadership in my company that I used to admire in EDS. I'm just glad that I know when I need them, there will be a number of disgruntled,but outstanding people that I hope will join me.
I am an HP employee, acquired via Compaq, and have been thru the worst and the best of all of the gyrations of the company since then. In summary, what we are facing now is fundamentally no different to what I have experienced over the last 20 years in the industry. It's tough but, in keeping with the theme of Darwin's 200th birthday, it's about survival and always has been. The Chief Executive Opportunist is just the culmination at the top.
You will have noticed already that I, as "Anagram Server", swim against the vast majority who have contributed here; however I can openly give you my insider's alternative perspective. Indeed, the senior management is bleeding everything they can out of the employees for their own benefit but c'mon people, we ALL do that, including the ancient HP'ers from days way back when. I'm sure even the young among you have seen the old stories from the time of HP's birth conveying all the emotion around automation putting everyone out of a job? That's where HP stems from and especially Dave and Bill were happily earning the big bucks with a rosy future, smirking on the way to the bank while typists, auto-workers, factory lines, etc. were falling the wayside.
I believe in compassion and fairness as much as the next guy. However, we are all used to working in a capitalist economy and should realise that our benevolence only kicks in once we've taken care of #1. It's an ugly truth but in the IT corporate world, I have seen too many people who couldn't give a monkey's.. until it was their own on the line.
There has been a lot of whining and moaning over the last few years but nobody doubts that HP has become a hugely successful company for the strategies that were applied as largely defined by Carly and Hurd. Frankly I prefer being a part of that success, even if it doesn't drop down to my level in any tangible form.
The crux of the argument is that the senior management is opulently reaping the benefits while the rest of us starve and that this will eventually lead to enough resentment as to bring the company down. I disagree and firmly believe that, as long as the company is successful, each malcontent who does drop out will be replaced by dozens of very eager, hard-working, innovative people who help to perpetuate that success.
So when you're swimming along and you turn around and see a big mouth open you have 3 choices, swim away quickly, surround yourself with a lot of peers and pray that it gets the other ones, or attach yourself and feed off of the remnants. I've opted for the latter.
Fine, lets imagine HP Employees do go on strike. OK. What happens? HP looses money, investors flee the stock (maybe you or someone else woudl say - ow, cool nice going - and buy a share-or two - but BIG investors will say - OMG - the money i'm safe-guarding for many other people (e.g. hedgefund) is at risk - i better pull out.
BIG companies who HP services would experience a disruption of services which are critical for their clients in banks etc.. and way down the line YOU, e.g. woudlnt be able to pay with your credit card or withdraw money from your bank. A bit extreme, i know :)
but the fact is - all a strike would accomplish is disruption of service, customers fleeing HP and in the end the losers would be the regular employees. Sure you dont think that Mr. Hurd would be impacted by a strike personally...?
Instead, what i believe we should do is to have a courage and say - FINE, I've had enough, I dont like that HP cares only about money, i dont like where this company is going and i'm going to work somewhere else. This is ultimately fair and courageous, i think.
As a 10year EDSr all I can say is that I very naively approached the buyout (merger my arse) with an optimistic view
I am now searching everywhere trying to find another job in order to leave, the situation is getting that bad that I am seriously considering taking a 15% pay cut to leave and start over with someone else
We are understaffed to the point of ridiculous, basic tasks are not getting done and the overall quality of staff left is dropping even faster than the numbers (fairly obvious really - the best find it easier to leave)
The manner of the staff 'reduction' exercise is a bean counting mess, no one has given anything but the most fleeting of attempts at making sure key staff are retained and departments are just being told "you have x staff, lose y%".
The best example of this is one dept I know of which has/had 30 staff - they were told to lose 5, it looks doable on paper but 21 of them are in remote locations and client facing so the 5 had to all come from the central team of 9. Needless to say the other 4 are now trying to leave
To anyone who gets support from EDS or HP - next time a deadline is missed look your relationship manager in the eye and ask about staffing (that's if you're lucky enough to be able to see one with all the travel freezes on at the moment)...
Hey numbnuts !
What Koolaid have you been drinking ? 90 % of HP employees hate Hurd's guts, densepack. You obviously belong to the 10% of a$$kissers without cranial matter. How dare you compare that greedy TURD with my parents.
Then I recommend to avoid "putting all management " in same bucket!!! there is only two or three limited top layers of management who behave this way...
As manager what worries me more and makes me furious is that as a manager I KNOW that they are doing exactly the opposite of what they should do to have the best efficiency and the best motivation from employees.
A company is nothing nothing nothing without a skilled, competent, motivated workforce... As a manager you can ask ANYTHING (reasonable :-) to somebody who likes, who loves the comapny he/she is working for. This was understood by two visionaries beloved by old employees and is still 100% valid today...
Anywya, I would be glad to only take a 5 % pay cutr. It certainly is better then 100%.
I just wish there was a way to temper the executive faction. You see, the largest retail chain in the World, Walmart, is and has been undermining it's employees in just the same fashion for many years now.........ever since Sam Walton (it's founder) passed away!! We were one of the only retail stores that had great gains this last Christmas season, but, thier greed is surpassed only by their ignorance. They jeapordize good quality service by cutting payroll, put on a hiring freeze and still being stupid enough to send exhorbitant amounts of freight to each store, thinking, oh, they won't get their bonuses for sales, because inventory is too high!!
Slick, corporate and overly-wealthy asses that we pay taxes for!!
Thanks again for your insight as to how corporate giants are screwing the little guy more and more each day!!
A current, but disgruntled, Walmart employee.......but not for too much longer!!
They put policies in place where the workforce was managed in such a way where they were not in hyper hire or fire cycles. They firmly believed in "growing their own" for the top management positions. When the economy was weak, management took a pay cut - not the employees. When the economy remained weak, employees worked a reduced work week. They didn't lose their jobs. They didn't fear losing their jobs. They were respected and rewarded accordingly.
Once upon a time there was real leadership at HP. Walter, where are you? The people of the company your father created need you.
As former EDS employee I'd like to inform you, that at many EDS locations employees have been convinced, not to share this blog with anyone, otherwise they would be blacklisted and ousted from the game....
As how things turning now, I think we must say NO.
It's high time to put an end to greed overwhelming reason and humanity.
Cheers,
You are one of those guys that eats whatever sh*t is being put on your plate, even trying to find excuses for densepacks like Turd.
Saw it has been previously mentioned... why not take some action and organise a global sick day?
That would make the media worldwide and you can then get your message out there.. all it takes is all employees to take part...about time someone made a stand...
1. in the US, the pay cuts are NOT voluntary
2. the pay cuts are permanent -- and everything that is based on your pay, like bonus (If there is any for us peons), retirement contributions, disability pay, etc. are cut by an equal amount because they are all a PERCENTAGE of your BASE PAY.
3. any retirement program match (401k) is capped at 4% and may actually be zero because the company match is now based on company performance
4. if we want to participate in the HP stock purchase program, we no longer get a discount! Why would we participate any longer?
5. the company culture has changed from listening to the employees (during the Hewlett and Packard days, John Young, Lew Platt, and yes, even Carly) to a top-down autocracy. Mark Hurd DOES NOT WANT DISSENT -- he doesn't listen to ANY ONE.
6. each year, Mark and his HR side-kick look for additional take-aways from the employees. What else can we cut this year? It can be small from cutting free coffee to large (pay cuts, dropping the old retirement program, etc.). And if he hears that an employee has complained -- he says we've got to stop the "entitlement attitude". However, Mark Hurd's GREED sure shows that HE thinks HE is ENTITLED to his HUGE BONUS COMPENSATION.
7. At the same time that Mark Hurd's and his senior managers (Livermore, etc.) doubled their compensation/bonus, Mark Hurd CUT everyone else's by 50%!
8. HP is NO LONGER a place where I'm proud to work. It is no better than the sweatshops in the third world.
- Corporations are made of persons
- Morale and motivation of the employees is what makes corporations succeed
- He needs employees to make his bonus, if we all , or a very big number of us "disappeared" suddenly , or would be on a prolongued period of not working, would the machines themselves make the numbers ?
- Slavery ended some centuries ago
It's because of all these greedy executives that we are on such bad economic situation.
Doesn't it look stupid to shrink even more the acquisition power of people worldwide ? How does he and lots of corporate executives think that consumption levels will go up ? By feeding the growing unemployed numbers ? By reducing their pocket money even more ? How do you want the economy to recover this way, you silly bastards ?
If the corporate executives could see a bit more ahead than a mere quarter, I guess the world wouldn't be in such a mess.
If they need binoculars or glasses to see better in the distance, I am happy to start a campaign to raise money for them (oh sorry, maybe their bonuses are already good enough for that !)
Does Mr Hurd think that such an announcement is to be taken seriously by anyone ? Reducing costs will only make the variable part of his pay to go up, and guess what , he could even cash in more than 2008, if he achieves what he proposes. Smart guy !
Unfortunately these guys play with our lives and we can't have "the balls" to get out from the company, with a decent amount of money and dignity to go ahead with our lives.
"Hurd Pays" way is no way, for sure.
HP invents a lot, but innovates not.
Mr. , "Have the balls " to "sacrifice" some million profits and you will have for sure a legion of employees wearing the HP shirt, otherwise, what you will see is a growing stock of equipment in the warehouses.
I'm not going to buy any more any HP equipment as far as I am alive.
I wish him a very happy early retirement, ASAP !
There is also a strong desire to have the court of public opinion pass judgement on the situation. But, to what end.
Let's hypothesise that Mark is persuaded to rescind the pay cuts. Q1 results would determine that 20,000 additional jobs would have to go. Let's assume Mark got religion and became a man of the people and didn't remove the excess heads. The Q2 results are quite likely to be worse than Q1 (not a function of HP performance rather a function of a general decline in the market place being experience by EVERY major IT supplier) and so on until the market improves (2-3 years based on best analysts estimates).
If you follow the above hypothesis, HP would be bankrupt within 2 years or worse, acquired by IBM.
If the court of public opinion is to continue to voice it's dissmay and frustration then it must also put forward some form of alternative to be credible.
For those who complain that HP is not like it used to be, few things are and I suggest you read "Who moved my cheese" to help you with the emotional crisis you are suffering.
For those who complain about the lack of index linking in the past. Inflation is a function of governmental fiscal policy ( for the most part). No corporation or business (save for the oil companies) can effect or be held accountable for that).
For the ex-EDS'ers. Frankly you are lucky to have any job given your previous company was finacially and morally bankrupt.
The debate and input is interesting and perhaps cathartic to those who feel aggrieved. However, I would positively advocate that if "the masses" wish to protest then do so with an alternative plan rather than an emotional plea of inequality.
How about you enlighten us with your suggestions for an alternative plan then? Might be a good place to start the conversation. You obviously agree that the action is draconian.
My suggestion is a simple one - Put aside the belief that company profits have to continue to grow exponentially quarter after quarter, accept that the profit margins will be lower for a period of time, the company is strong enough to handle it, build the moral, technical competency and customer enthusiasm, of your employee base (who now love you and will do anything for you because you protected them during the worst economic crisis since the great depression), and kick arse when things improve.
Dreaming I may be, but it's not our of the realm of possibility. History has examples of CEO's who have done exactly that.
This will be the begining of more paycuts to come - and when it comes to more - embrace the more work that will come as well.
I think the best way to fight this is to stand together in a united front. They may make people redundant because of this stand but that would probably have happened anyway.
How about, instead of salary cuts, they stop all bonus payments for a few years? I believe that question has already been asked and got a resounding NO!! I wonder why? Couldn't be that Hurd would lose $42M less for the next few years could it? How obscene to have the best part of $140M going out of the company, at this time, in bonus payments to a handful of managers.
HP SUCKS!! Wasn't Obama going to restrict the incomes of these type of scumbags, or is that only the companies that get bailed out by the government?
He will expect the take-up of voluntary salary cuts in countries that have legislation to protect the workers to be less that 100%.
He will have accounted for the number of employees who will leave.
He will have accounted for the number that will stay.
He will have accounted for the number of WFR"s.
He will have accounted for the cost of impact to the brand HP
He will have accounted for what his BIG FAT BOUNS will be.
HP may not survive as the company it once was but this CEO will just go on to repeat the rape and pillage for personal financial gain to some other company and get the chance to ruin more lives.
I am with the rest of you, HP can get stuffed, I'm not taking any salary cut after years of no pay increases, I'll take the chance and if I don't find another job before I get WFR'd at least I will have received my redundancy payment at my original salary.
I am an HP employee in the Asia Pacific Region and fortunately enough I am only given a 'choice' to take the pay cut or not. Of course, I will not take the cut. HP culture now changed from 'employees first' to 'profit first'. With the announcement of Mark Hurd, it just brought me back to my senses that you don't have to be a martyr for a company that does nothing but disappoint you, does not motivate you, does not pay you enough, and does not simply care.
Really thanks as you have voice up for us. Everthing is cut since last year, no inclement, allowance cut, standby cut, mobile cut, now salary cut. I have no idea what will cut next.
For those wish to work with HP, double think before you come. All blank promise will be given before you join, but after join is another set of story. I experience it due i was one of the victim. Turnover here is damn high, every day will getting farewell email. We feel like no life here as we required work extra with little salary.
From jobstreet you can still getting position is openning, but my team empty position still not get fill, Why?? it because they offer package is damn suck.
MD got Jet, what we got?
There is no hope here.
Can all the HP employee vote him out by any way?
e.g. World Wide strike!
Lets all stop work for 1 week on the week of 1 April 2009. Let HP stock falls for 1 week.
He is making himself rich by taking away HP employees salary. He is making the next level rich too, so they have to follow your instruction (else they will be gone too). There is no voice of the workforce.
So sad... HP founders must be heart broken, because their loyal employees are all abused
Loved your post - you nailed it. In fact you more than nailed it - you put some perspective around the Hurdinator like no one else. I love it!
I am so pissed off at Mark, I made a web-site dedicated to tell him to F-off. Check out out!
My pay is going to the block at 5%, adding to a total of 16% off my pay (taxes, EPF,etc,more taxes)
Put the Turd where he belonged in the first place. And that Ann! My blood boils at the sight of her all-smiles face plastered over her emails.
I understand you should think it's funny to add "french" after my HP status, but, you know, all I read of this tremendous article from Damien reminds me part of the well known history of my so well known country... at a time when Kings and Queens were from the aristocracy, and were enjoying a outrageous gravy train, leaving a lot of people in misery...
Today I think Kings and Queens are not anymore from the aristocracy, but at the head of companies such as HP.
And they enjoy a huge gravy train at a time their employees fear for their future, job, house, family...
So now you know what I mean by adding "french"... :-)
I am glad I do not work for HP anymore. Sad to hear this, pretty crap.
What I heard, it is upon you ppl to agree with this payment cut. Make rebellion and no one accept this shit. :-p
Ciao
PS: do not forget to fill out omega :-)
“Like you, Mark and the rest of HP’s executives agree that our people are our most important asset and hope to continue our success together as a team in 2009 and beyond.
Thank you for your thoughtful post.
Sincerely,
HP Communications Representative”
I have been here at HP for about 11 years and after Carly joined we have been loosing benefits every 3-6 months in the US. We just had a conference call by an HR VP stating that the new directive from Mark to HR is to move the to an more efficient model by making sure that less than 15% of the workforce are part of the overhead. This means that more WFR (layoffs) are coming at the end of this year and beyond. Yes, people are out most important assets as long as they do not cost too much. They are now even thinking about moving work from India to China because it is cheaper.
What I also love is that HP has been constantly hides behind “INDUSTRY BENCHMARKS” as a measure of matching our benefits and pay. What I have been hearing for years is how HP is still paying over benchmark figures. How can this be? When companies such as IBM and HP create the benchmarks because of the massive size? Yes, our people are our most important asset as long as they are average like the benchmarks. Starting last year and continuing into this year, HP has found another clever way of reducing pay through re-writing of the Job Architecture descriptions (raising the expectations’ for each job level) and the lowering of salaries associated with each of the positions and levels. So, last year a good number of US employees, including myself, were demoted and our salaries reduced to reflect the new Job Architecture. So, how are people the most important assets?
So, what are the benefits of working for HP in US? Besides having a low paying job and expensive health care, there is nothing else. All other benefits have been taken away as others have mentioned in the posts above.
HP will never change unless we the employees come together and say “enough is enough” by not working as hard and by leaving when we have an external opportunity.
As one HR VP once said in an all hands meeting “People always complain about pay and benefits but we [Sr. VPs and Directors] have not seen the attrition numbers increase so we are not worried about it at this time”.
Employee is exploited as much as contract and local law allows. Management organize this exploitation. They will do (in every company) as much as they can to increase profit. They CAN do it. Only possibility for us is to... leave. Such complaining is valid, but management is personification of the capitalist and they cand do (almost) what they want. Forget brands, names, history - they means nothing now.
When you are entering shop and you are not satisfied with goods, you just leave shop and will enter another, isn't it?
ALL (HP/EDS/CPQ/manyotherssmallcompaniesdevouredbyHP) EMPLOYEES - LEAVE HP AND SHOW MARK THAT ISN'T WORTH TO STAY IN HP!
Otherwise you already put your agreement with actions and behavior of the HP management. Don't be stupid complaining sheeps on the road to the slaughterhouse, please.
Zenon Plech
This is exactly the way he treats us and me and all my colleaques are sick of it. Does he think we still perform well motivated after this? No, we do the minimun required and absolutely no more! He can keep his own shit.
And WE WILL NOT SIGN FOR A PAY CUT - HE CAN BE SURE FOR THAT! In my country it is luckily voluntary. Which dork is gonna sign for it voluntarily?
I've indeed had a promotion and since then gotten a 2.5% payrise - this does not even cover inflation! It's taken me well over 5 years to get that increase of 5% and I do perform well! Stuff him! I do not want a "better" job in this company, I will not accept more responsibility, there is a limit to what we can take and the limit has been reached!
I AM SOOOOO ANGRY!
I partly agree with most of the things in this discussion. Personally I wont accept the 5% cut.
But in general my experience has been good.
* proper training -> face2face/abroad etc (compared to s..t that it was on IBM)
* My salary is quite ok, maybe not the highest on the markets but I got really good deal as I am a "foreign" and they really have difficulties finding people with my language skills.
* Managers are still lightyears head of the IBM ones.....
Good luck all:D
I am an HP employee and I totally agree with the comments in this article.
I joined HP asa graduate and have worked for the company for 8 years. I do like my job but the pay is at least 50% below the market standard. Also I was promoted in March last year and was told the pay rise will take place next pay cycle. The pay cycle has been and gone bu no pay rise due ot the pay freeze.
I do like my job but feel like I have been taken advantage of for enough years. The funny thing is if they have to repalce me externally tomorrow they will have to pay someone with less experience more money.
Pay is a real issue at HP. Especially if you have been with the company for a long time and started at the bottom.
Furstatred Employee!!!!
In 3 years, I have no benefits, no vacation, no perks, no health insurance, and less money now than 3 years ago. They should all be happy they have jobs. In my situation, I was expecting a promotion. When I was called into the office, I thought it was about my promotion. I was told my job was eliminated.
I will tell you now as an absolute fact, with no exaggeration whatsoever to embellish the point:- over 90% of the managers, technical professionals and (to Mr Hurd) the operational worker ultrascum, are both disgusted and enlightened by this shocking proof of boundless greed. The other 10% (the servile herd of the crass, ignorant and just fearful) include you in their ranks. Shame on you, you little, little man. I hope you don't have any children.
Looks like you posted all the responses of folks who agree with you...
Bottom line, Mark Hurd had a green light and from the HP Board to cut 20,000 jobs...a heavy point that you forgot to mention.
So, who truly cares how much he earns??...or any other successful Technology CEO, for that matter. If All CEO's like Mr. Hurd take difficult measures to keep people behind their desks and on the payroll, rather than the roles of unemployemnt, good for them. Maybe the next thing that they will be able to do is to bring some tech support and manufacturing jobs back to the US....we sure do need 'em.
Try a survey...ask employees "would you rather make 5% less money in a recession/depression, or not have a job, and lose your house?" You know the answer to that question, don't you?...hope so.
The news media continues to paint gloom and doom when they would serve the country much better by finding the bright spots and amplifying those parts...and yes thre are bright spots...the full and true Bank of America story being just one. They actually had an excellent 4th quarter and are very actively loaning money.
Your article was articulated very well, and you know that you are an excellent writer. I suggest that you consider how errosive your words really are though, and give it another think...write a supplimental...show some patriotism. Give the people some hope and positive energy. We really need some hard hitting, uplifting journalism right now...you can provide that. I respectfully challenge you to give that a whirl, Damien, and make a positive impact when you are truly needed most...and no, not blow smoke...just find the positive spin on what is happening now and do your magic acccordingly.
Oh...I am and EDS guy...lots amazingly talented people at both EDS and HP...lets keep 'em place...you can help.
I expressed my opinion, and don't see why we shouldn't encourage people to disagree or present a different argument. I would love to hear the one that justifies Marks actions and gladly approve it.
Please point out what's positive about this and I'll be happy to publish it. Fact is that the question regarding having a 5% pay cut or a job is totally irrelevant. The jobs have been, are still, and will be going anyway. The WFR machine never stops.
So dear HPler, the only chance for us is to stand up and fight for our salary. If all HP employees round the globe will stop their work for 1 -2 hours, we'll see what Mark can do....not collect his bonus.
In Germany are many EDS people on the street for demos.
Actually abou 1000 employees bought tickets for the CEBIT fair and then they are laying on the floor inside the hall. All 1000 people at the same time.
see here for more information: (sorry it's in German language)
http://www.hr-online.de/website/fernsehen/sendu...
but the video is great, very creative and could be an option for the global HP employees.
The newest cut in Germany: these days came a email from the management team: Sorry, but we thinking about to cut the cafeteria benefit (who gets all German HP empl. for many many yaears now, approx. 50 % per meal).
Would be the next cost saving the free coffee/tea/water for the global HP world? - Should we establish a donation department for Mark? Or should every employee bring his/her own private laptop to the office for saving money? - It is a worthwhile thought.
The workers council in Germany asked the employees about their decision regarding the salary cut. About 85 % would say NO,NO!!
What are the next steps from the management?
Dave and Bill would turn round in the grave!
A "highly motivated" HP asset
You think it's bad now, wait till our kids finish school and enter the ugliest workforce I've ever known. I started my apprenticeship at Melford Motors back in the good ol' days. As a 1st year apprentice, Col Paige the owner of the company knew me by name and would often stop and chat. Respect is such a simple thing. Aint it strange how it invokes us to work hard, long and proud. Who am I? If HP knew their staff, they'd know who I am.
2002..... (soon to be released on parole, me thinks)
You have an interresting point in your objective look at the business and I'm sure mr Hurd would like to have you as the perfect ball catcher. I agree to many things you mention but at the end moral and ethics diversify us from the animals. Mr Hurd thought that he would earn some extra point for cutting his 20% and that's his big mistake. 1.5 billion dollar to split on 6 people is fine as long as you don't want to split it on your employees. Ass holes for some reasons always seem to get further up so maybe one should change direction.
Just discovered there's a link to Damian's blog in Mark Hurd's Wikipedia entry - the most salient piece of it to be fair.
But it doesn't work - because someone changed "opportunism" to "oportunism" in the address line and killed it!
You could lift any stone in a rubbish pit and not expose a more vile creature than the person who would undermine such an institution of free speech and democracy. HR amoeba - is this your latest riposte?
Link is now fixed but worth keeping an eye on - like an earlier bloggers analogy, when you threaten the greed-drug, the addict gets nasty. Other contributors were correct - this whole topic is indicative of disgraceful inequity (not just HP), and should get wider reporting......
News Ltd Board of Directors.
but the latter is not surprising, as one of the reasons we are in a mess and inequity has soared, is that the media has been undermined hopelessly in the past 20 years....real issues are buried in the drivel they feed the masses.
"He who controls the past, controls the future....."
(1984)
Despite what managers and the PR weavers may say, employee salaries have been frozen, suppressed or shrunk consistently over the past 8 years. This request for employees to take a further cut in light of 'reduced profits' (no LOSS here mind you) would be funny if it weren't so disgusting.
Damian, a good commentary on the current situation, highlighting the complete disregard for the fact that HP's executive sit on top of a very large pyramid of people that make their jobs and lifestyles possible.
I am lucky enough to be in a country where we are not enforced to take the cut, I feel for all of you who are and hope you stand up for your rights.
I can't believe I was dumb enough to actually consider taking the cut voluntarily (for the good of the company), but considering in the last 2 weeks, we had two WFRs in the team which now has given me 1.5 extra jobs already on my 1.5, 60 hour a week job, there is NO WAY I am taking 5% less for doing twice as much. This article also sealed the deal.
It is so disappointing that I had been forever excited about the possibility of working for HP, and now, its true colours have been revealed. How sad.
So seize this time and embrace it and start something that WORKS for YOU!!!
I have been with EDS/HP for over 5 years now working in various positions and roles in the company. I would love to say that this pay cut does not hurt, but it does. I'm still paying for my expensive college education for another 36 monthly payments. The cut for me only means I have choice of how to make up for the loss of income, I can stop making payments in to RRSP's (Canadian 401K's) or give up my car. Some people would say give up the car, but we are moving to a new office that is only 20 to 25 minutes to drive to from where I live, but a 105 minute bus ride consisting of 3 transfers. So, I guess I'll be putting off retiring since that is so far away.
I could leave the company, but right now I'm in the situation of "and go where?". Locally the bulk of the tech jobs are help desk roles, short term contracts or with company's whose products and services are too dependent on export to other countries and times are tough for them. So my options are leave the company to go work somewhere that could be out of business 6 months from now, take a help desk job or take a 6 month contract to due a refresh and hope I can find another job once the contract is over. As much as I hate to say it, I'm stuck with HP (for now).
Since I am single, I can survive this change easier, sure it hurts to go back to a salary I was making 3 years ago, but the one's I see this really hurting are several of my friends in the company who have taken promotions in the past year. They have the new job and responsibilities, but due to cutbacks, they are still being paid their old wages (which could be $5000 to $20000 below the pay scale for that role) and now they have to take a 5% pay cut on top of that. Several of these people are just beginning to start a family.
Other ways HP has announced to cut costs is to restrict travel, no money spent on external training and tuition re-embursement and a 50% reduction on money spent on things like office supplies. The first question I have is which offices have been allowed to spend money on office supplies? It is impossible to get a pen at my office, so I have resorted to buying my own. I imagine some people have begun to lock up their supplies at night so they don't disappear from their desks at night.
As for training, we are a technology company, we need to stay up to date on technology. I don't know about other people, but I am expected to achieve a new certification every year and I am in a damned if I do, damned if I don't spot now. If I write any exams, I'm paying the costs out of pocket, if I don't, it will effect my performance review which any future raises are based on.
I wonder if it is too late to follow my father footsteps and become an auto mechanic?
The ministy of truth needs to here this
http://www.i-resign.com/uk/home/
I love HP!
got 42m last year, this year will want more.
Just hope that our paycut does not roll under our dear CEO's cost reduction performance goal. ;(
Get his bonus at all employees expense... That's inhuman
Well, I guess that this is the price that you pay for UNCHECKED CAPITALISM, and a company run by a huge group of selfish ASS LICKERS!!
I ask how can we truly expect our politicians and Governments to stand up for the employee of any business behaving in this manner. Lead by example has been mentioned here many times... well from everything I've seen during my years that is what all governments and politicians are doing!! Look at the pensions and payouts every aussie pollie gets! They are no better than the mark hurd's of the world!
I will never again buy another HP product even if that causes more redundancies and costs me my job in the end.
From just another very disillusioned Aussie EDS/HP employee
Anyway, just mentioning that China staff are also supporting to reject the cut. Else, it seems only Europeans and Australians. You are not alone, Brothers!!!
Chinese believe in kama, may all these blood suckers burn in hell...
Your comments are spot-on and I agree with your observations. I am one of the 22,000+ employees terminated (10/2008) already and, I am sure, there will be more. Unfortunately, these executives possess zero conscience and only think of themselves and the fortunes they can amass. How anyone needs $42 million in a year, let alone in their whole life, is beyond me.
This is on top of the crooks in Washington DC who run our country and ruin our lives.
I was absoultely insulted when Mark tried to make it seem like he was shouldering the heaviest burden by taking a 20% paycut while the rank and file would only take 5%...I mean what a bunch of smoke and mirrors. That message spoke volumes of Mark's true character and was a complete insult to the intelligence of employees worldwide. I still can't understand how that message got past the HR screeners. It was a public relations disaster!
As if employee moral couldn't get any lower. Way to go Mark!
Their reasoning is entirely bogus. Hewlett and Packard were both capitalists at heart, but they were also admired for their sense of ethics, respect for individuals, technical creativity, and business good sense. I was lucky enough to meet both in person, so this is first-hand knowledge for me. At the time, I was proud to work for HP, my motivation was high, and my work wasn't impeded by the various roadblocks that my employer was putting in my way.
Unlike what various Mark Hurd apologists stated, there is also nothing outdated about Hewlett and Packard management techniques. There is little debate about the fact that these two guys created the Silicon Valley, and their spirit lives on in other companies. Some of the most successful and fast growing companies today still apply their management techniques. Ever heard about the perks you could get at Google during plush time, all while HP was cutting oh-so-significant expenses such as water fountains and coffee machines? I'm so sad that I lost a colleague, one of the best software engineers on the planet (operating system designer), to such a coffee machine reduction program.
Capitalism is entirely independent of moral value. You can choose to be a god capitalist, you can choose to be a capitalist asshole. Stating that Mark Hurd is doing the right thing is in my opinion similar to taking Bernard Madoff as a role model. I'd venture to say that those who really create value are the Hewletts and the Packards, not the Hurds of this world. It's been observed time and time again that company founders care about what their company does, not just its financial value.
The problem of HP right now is that the current management is simply milking the fat cow they inherited from better managers before them: HP's growth is now primarily achieved by buying other companies rather than promoting internal innovation. And what happens when the fat is gone and the cow can't produce milk anymore? They buy a new cow! I personally have much more admiration for those who can grow cattle than for those who only know how to sell milk diluted in more and more water.
Another point out is that it's not just the benefits that were cut. The tools needed to do the job also took a hit: ongoing travel restrictions, low-end PCs that you have to install and maintain yourself, recurrent network or even electrical outages, ongoing datacenter cost reductions making them less and less reliable, regular application downtimes, ever increasing bureaucracy, constantly reduced freedom to make decisions (even if they would benefit the customer)... The list is practically endless.
A commenter named Mark talks about "days of Latte and easy money". Well, I'd personally settle for a computer that works. Working for HP these days is like being asked to win a marathon with company-mandated ski boots, wearing company-mandated lead-covered combat fatigues, dragging a cart full of fat cats pretending to help by holding a rotten carrot on a stick.
Now for the good news.
As Employees we are all responsible for our own situations and if you don't like what is happening then change it. I have been lucky enough to find a good situation, with a much smaller company.
HP will continue to loose people if they continue to treat there people the way they currently are. People is what made HP a great company and a great company to work for.
To the minority who blithely declare that we should all be grateful to HP for giving us a job - get a life! Company loyalty went out of the window as soon as Hurd started to treat his employees with such total disrespect. I'm actively looking for another job and as soon as I find one - bye bye! If you've got the right skillset in the UK, there's still plenty of alternative employment around.
Hurd and his cretinous cabal should be mindful of the fact that organisations such as HP rely 100% on the loyalty of their creative employees to make the company successful. In the current economic climate, the cards are loaded in Hurd's favour - we're in a recession so there's less opportunities for the disgruntled employee to take. BUT, in a couple of years we'll start to emerge from the recession and HP employees will bitterly remember just how HP's senior management treated them when things got tough. There will be a mass exodus of the best people to HP's competitors, especially as HP now pay relatively poorly.
Hurd's destruction of the HP Way, his complete disdain for his employees, and, above all, his obscene greed and arrogance will return and bite him. The benefactors will be the likes of IBM and Fujitsu and HP will start to slide down the list of leading technology companies. Hurd will only have himself to blame.
The HP Board of Buffoons will also be in for a rude awakening. There are many, many thousands of European employees who will refuse to sign the pay cut proposal. Legally there's nothing HP can do. If HP/EDS employees were in a position like that of the major carmakers, banks or other organisations that are actually losing money, rather than experiencing a slight reduction in already huge profits, then I'm sure that they would do their bit and back the pay cut. However, no-one in their right mind is going to agree to this when the top 6 in HP take home almost $143 million between them. Screw that.
So, well done Mark. You've managed to royally piss off HP employees, newly acquired EDS employees, destroy the loyalty of both, strengthen your competitors and show yourself to be a greedy egotist, all in one fell swoop.
HP - Hurd's Piggybank.
2. Express your disgust at the greed of the execs & the unfairness of your perosnal financial situtaion in your FPR comments.
3. Join a union. (HP has to recognise Unions in Europe when over 51% of employees are members, not sure about other countries legal position on this.)
4.. Do not accept the pay cut.
5. Contact influential people outside of HP and inform them of whats going on inside the company particularly shareholders. (Its in their interests that the company does not self implode through industrial action and work to rule contrary to what you might think, i.e. they love job cuts. They need a professional motivated workforce to deliver to help increase profits & their dividends.)
6. Take back the company's old culture, there are 300,000 of us & only 6 of those greedy, selfish, loathsome individuals at the top. Let us dictate fairness, reward, equality, integrity in what we do on HP's behalf & refuse to follow the constant reorganisations and new campaigns they initiate. Remember its us that implement & follow the new dictats from above that make them happen.
7. Contact the most senior manager you know who may be sympathetic with our views & request support.
WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE BY TAKING ACTION TOGETHER, DO NOT GIVE UP!
Are the media aware? I havent seen anything about 27k global redundancies in the news based on the HP/EDS acquisition; or furthe WFR based on circumstances outside the acquisition; or pay cuts for a growing company's personnel to enable the company to grow further; that if they dont accept a pay cut further reedundancies may result (emotional blackmail) and if accepted no guarantee that there would be no furtehr need for wrf.
For those who say "http://www.i-resign.com/uk/home/" the answer is why should we, its people like us who made the company what it is (must be true as every quarter we are told such) and as such we should drive for change within.
Yet another hacked off EDS/HP employee.
"For the ex-EDS’ers. Frankly you are lucky to have any job given your previous company was finacially and morally bankrupt."
What the hell are YOU talking about ........ the only group that pulled HP's corrupt fat out of the fire in Q!09 was............guesss who ? EDS
We were doing fine as a LEADER in the services field until you immoral fatcats plundered us and started ripping apart a successful business
have a look in the mirror mate ......... it is YOU and your mates causing this crap .......... not EDS
Not sure about all you other people, but I do not see that as an answer. We have two managers for the same department. When I asked the same question to the other one, she told me she would check with the one I got the non answer from. This was over a week ago. I still have heard nothing from either one of them. The first manager I spoke to asked me for my resume, and said he would activly search within the company and keep mw posted weekly. As of Fridaythe 13th. I have heard nothing. Now just how active is that? The web links I was given to do my own search are basically useless, unless I am willing to uproot and leave the province or country.
In my opinion, We have too many managers drawing huge salaries, and they have no clue as to what goes on in their department. There is now only one other person in said department that had the same work ethic as me. If for the same non reason that person is let go, then these managers will soon need to see exactly what does go on there.
I hope they will soon see what it is the others do. They will then be in for a shock beyond any expectation they may have.
Thank you for giving me a place to vent a little.
Throughout the world, HP does not employ indentured slaves; but willing employees who may leave at any time they desire.
To that effect, taking upon it all is the requirement that we protect the company for the true owners, and guaranty that the intrinsic value remains at least constant; but assumingly trending toward positive.
To achieve this result I agree cutbacks are inevitable:
• Voluntary salary adjustments
• Dismissing all contract labor
• Outsourcing all available non-core functions
• Moving all direct labor pools to more cost effective regions
• Enforcing alternate methods for collaboration, other than travel
• And watching the bottom line
I personally have had to curtail the amount of travel I am doing on our corporate jet, and I am taking less vacation time as well, to achieve these results.
Please stand by me and the HP promise and I can assure all of you this will be a small blip in the long term outlook for all the corporate shareholders.
As a shareholder, in any company, I believe I have a moral responsibility to invest in businesses that contribute to their long term growth and sustainability by enabling a contented and motivated workforce, irrespective of where they are located, and that they treat that workforce fairly and with respect. You are not doing that. American or Global is irrelevant.
Until you realize that your treatment of employees is actually institutionalized exploitation , this is going to be more than a "small blip in the long term outlook".
We (I am) are only asking for fairness. The salary cuts are unfair, have the courage to step out of the mold and do something honorable.
Who hired Andy Mattes ? Why was he let go from Siemans AG ?
Looks like Jack Welch of GE is flagging the simple nature of the new celebrity CEO's (our dearly beloved Mr. "Ivy League" Turd amongst them). Short term, insatiably hungry, contemptuous, arrogant gluttonous yobs. Hey Mark, sit down with your kids some evening and explain to them your "value-add" to this world and all those in it; if you're truthful it will give them a chance to be better people and leave a greater legacy.....but sadly the solid platinum spoon in their mouths has likely done it's evil work, and salvation is out of reach.......
(by the way Mark, I am NOT religious - I just dig the imagery!).
This is not the company I joined. I am so frustrated, angry, demoralized.
Let's see, here's everything I can think of that has passed for management and praised in the press in the last few years:
* Replacement of Medical Benefits for Retirees with a $12K good luck fund that is earned over 10 years
* Now there's a catch to even that plan -- employees have to match HP's contribution or they don't get anything.
* Hurd's solemn commitment that HP's pension plan would be retained for employees close to retirement; then a few months later discontinuing it, saying, "We don't choose to differentiate ourselves in that way." What way, Mark? By keeping your damned promises?
* Gutting HP's stock purchase plan to allow for only a 15% discount; then, as part of his recent 'don't waste a crisis' announcement, removing the discount altogether.
* Making the company match to our 401K contingent on HP performance. Oh, and reducing the match from 6% to 4% for employees nearing retirement
* Taking a full week out of most employees' annual vacation accrual.
* Forcing those who have saved up vacation time to take most of it within three years or lose it.
* No pay increases for this employee for the last 2+ years, while taking on extra responsibilities due to a dwindling department
* Oh, and my all time favorite: Being forced to work from home, then forced to supply a phone for company business AT MY OWN DAMNED EXPENSE!
Aside from that, things are great at HP.
HP Employees who are promoted into new roles with higher accountability, more work and more stress do not receive an immediate remuneration increase in line with the new position. Instead they have to wait for the yearly review which more often than not sees them bitterly disappointed. If you are employed into a new role in February you will wait until the end of the year for your remuneration review, the company will exploit you for nine months at least prior to that and then your remuneration will be determined by a simple algorithm on a spreadsheet that coldly spits out a figure you will definitely be unhappy with.
******************************************************************************************
We, Filipinos are always exploited!!! We work soooo hard and yet are always underpaid!!! That's why we definitely disapprove of the pay-cut!!!
The general modus operandi is to promote those who execute orders and don't rock the boat. Once the unspoken rules are established, the next step is to declare themselves as the "Talent". Of course they deserve far far better remuneration than others who are NOT talented.
They have by now firmly deluded themselves they are some kind of superior organism. Even though we all know most of them were arse kissing, disruptive incompetents just 5 years ago.
There's nothing new in this behaviour, it is as old as human civilisation. A few years ago there was a small self serving group called Nazis. (Apologies in advance to modern enlightened Germans). They got a tad deluded and extreme in their views. Our grandparents lost lives and limbs to fight against their nauseous grand delusion.
Sadly these modern day mini-Hitlers have us all by the testicals. The choice of torture device is called the annual performance review. Boldly conceived and executed by the noble HR department (or should I say... ... "Gestapo".... Mwuu Haa Haa).
Chained to our mortgage debts, we will sell our grandmothers not to get that "I" ranking. We will shank each other in the side for the paltry "K" and extra 10% bonus. It would be slightly less bad, if mangement judgement was not so arbitary and opinionated.
Other than a surprising and dramatic change in human behaviour I don't see a quick end to the horror story. My only hope is to form some kind of professional organisation or union to represent all employess feeling disempowered and abused by the superscale bonus brigade.
We have to fight against the divide and conquer tactics to get equity. Unity is the only option.
While unions got a bad rep, the form of organization is sound and rational. And a next-gen union (ie. a company wide employee unit) could absolutely help building a new law that could trump the idealism (in the philosopical sense) of the management.
Just imagine if the share price will to drop to below $18, that will put everyone into a tough position. Thus,I would rather hope Mr Mark to get paid double of the $42m to sustain at the current level where we are.
We can not measure how well individual gain but should be looking at the macro picture.
In analogy, we buy insurance for the protection but we are not saying that we are willing to pay the high premium.
Just 2 cents of thoughts!
Fernand
Thanks for the article. It helps to read some commentary
As a current employee, I can only add that this issue isn't over and it is going to get worse. The first quarter profit was approximatel $100M per week, yet we have just had to lock in the next round of workforce reductions (and it doesn't matter that we cannot meet customer expectations) and have been advised that work force reduction targets for Q3 will be sent out next week. You have to wonder where it will end, although the middle management perception is that we will be cut to a point just above where we will end up in legal action for non-performance.
I find some of the comments about EDS interesting. The moral bankruptcy of the Dick Brown era had nearly been purged under Mike Jordan and the company was in a good position when it was handed to Rittenmeyer. The whole HP thing started when EDS was in discussions to buy the HP outsourcing business, not the other way around. Far from being a basket case claimed by some of the posters, EDS was a stable business and the financials, while not outstanding, was enough for steady growth. Rittenmeyer's payout clause of $50M if the company got sold was probably part of his motivation for the sale.
The problem is wider than the pay cut issue, and is identified if you read between the lines in the Fortune 500 article and some of Hurd's public statements. He manages only one way - sets targets in isolation and if you don't meet those targets you cut cost through workforce reduction.
A review of the leading companies would reveal that their leaders have a focus first on products and customers and secondly in the numbers, because they understand that with good product and satisfied customers you will make your numbers. There is little product and customer focus today in HP and the quality of products has sufferred because of the reduction in R&D spend. HP also does not have the diversified portfolio of IBM (very little software revenue) so it is more susceptible to drops in corporate and consumer spending
Managing by the numbers only addresses one aspect of assessing an organisations performance. Declining employee moral, increasing customer dissatisfaction and diminishing product quality are leading indicators of success or failure that won't show up in a spreadsheet
While ever Mark Hurd continue's to manage from his spreadsheet HP will continue its downward spiral to decay. As service levels decline our customers will leave and the annuity business that came from EDS will diminish. In 2010, if Hurd is still here, he will be looking to sell parts of the business because he will have culled the very lifeblood that could turn it around
The total focus of this CEO appears to be shareholder value and what the analysts will think. As he continues to destroy stakeholder value, it will only be a matter of time before the analysts call for his head. Unfortunately a lot of great employees and loyal customers will feel the pain along the way and rather than Hurd achieving his goal of being No1, ahead of IBM, we will be creating IBM's future customer base
My comments to those with negative reactions:
1. Nobody is forcing you to stay with HP. If you don't like Hurd, you are free to leave.
2. Do you think you could have done a better job? After Hurd took over, I think he cleaned up Carly's mess pretty well. I am not saying he's perfect, but I would like to see you clean up a mess that big AND lead a company this size at the same time.
3. On the comment that this is not a choice between the 5% and the layoff as the layoff machine will continue to roll: I don't know a about you but I'd rather have 3 months worth of 95% salary then get laid-off rather than have no salary now.
4. I am sure that someone will eventually comment on my post that I am some sort of @$$K1553|2 for saying this. But I am working with HP, and not for Hurd nor for HP. In the words of Dave, we work in an organization because we admit that there are things we want to achieve that we cannot do on our own. Again, if there are things that you want to achieve that HP cannot give you, please feel free to leave.
5. So what if Hurd makes a huge bonus? The question is does he get the job done?
6. Let's wake up and smell the flowers. There is a recession that is going on. To get out of this recession, it makes more sense to keep people employed (even at a lower salary) than to lay them off. Layoffs contribute more to the recession than the paycuts.
What I am disappointed at here is that people prefer to complain about this in public forums. Why are you scared to criticize HP from within? We have all the tools at our disposal to voice out our complaints: emails, internal forums, etc. (I am tempted to say Open Door Policy but I am not sure how that works in other sites, though in my site this works extremely well).
There was an email being passed around before from an employee who emailed Hurd about the no-increase in Q1. Why don't the ranters just do the same thing and just pass around their emails and replies from upper management within the HP network?
PS. I am interested to know how many of the ones ranting here are from On-shore (i.e. NA/EMEA), near-shore and farshore locations. I am getting the general impression that the ones complaining are the On-shore employees while the Farshore employees are quietly happy that there is more headcount flowing their way.
These things.....the CEO and teh management cannot understand...
I guess the management and the CEO are lucky that they have high salary and the 5 or 10% of the salary cut doesnt matter to them... but for us like me who has low salary gives high importance to every centavo we make...
and they dont understand....
We all need to make sacrifices...you can take away other benefits....they said when they took off the raise this year....they would..look for other means...to avoid salary cuts...and now....this happened....
As far as history having examples of CEO's who put the company ahead of profits in hard times, one doesn't have to go very far. Bill and Dave did that. Were they hard on the employee's when they screwed up? You bet they were. After some of their meetings you walked away feeling they were no better than yesterday's dinner still molding in the trash can next to their desk. BUT and it's a big BUT, they knew what the biggest asset was in the company and what would put them on top once again. And yes, they did follow your suggestion, as you posted in post #96.
Let us NOT forget that WE HAVE THE POWER to change EVERYTHING !
Namely, i talk about all of us, the consumer and employees and investors !!!
LET's work together and DO the right things NOW !
a) send this article to all your influencial friends and anonymiously to HP/EDS customers and investors.
b) SELL all your HP shares and other investments.
c) Don't buy any more HP products EDS services.
d) Get a job with a company thriving on ex-EDS/HP's customers with competitive products and services.
Why and how does this method work ?
Concept:
1.) Only the demise of the firm will bring the king down and cut his pay.
2.) The NEED for computers and services NEVER dies !
3.) If not HP, another company will be happy to deliver and bring the king down from his throne!
-The devil wears Prada- ... until he burns in hell...
Proof of concept:
Me, an angry ex Cpq/HP employee who was in court with HP cause HP "forgot" to pay Compaq commissions.
I proved the concept as follows:
After two years sending friendly reminders to my rapidly changing superiors HP's HR-manager finally replied with the declaration: "Sorry, the late payment is against our policy and we closed books already. And anyway, there is no reliable incentive calculation from that time that's why we cannot pay your missed 2 years variable (40%) salaries +incentives anymore (arising to 147'000$) - Of course I lost in court, because HP engaged the most prestigous attorneys, dismissed me on the spot under falsed allegations of unloyalty and dispersion of company confidential info.
I lost the court case, because HP could erase all my proof and fake all their arguments, BUT in turn HP lost 85% of the volume and customers since I was dismissed !!!
The business unit with 5 employees and 150mill.$ turnover (me alone 60-80mill. p.a.)
shrank in 4 years to 19mill.$ and 2.5 employees.
Heureka !!! ... the method works !!!
SMASH THE KINGS !!!
THIS IS WHAT I CALL SQUEEZING THE PEOPLE's B####!
We have families, bank loans etc. to look after.
I'd be happy to reduce my salary if it means saving people from getting fired but then when the economy picks up again (and it well, don't know when but it will) I'd expect to readjust the salary back to where it was.
It's just fair, also considering the millions our senior management is earning. .
Over the years, we as HP employees have been supporting the management in the cause of this company. We work our guts out at the sacrifice of our family and love ones so as to deliver the growing good performance of this company. We submit willingly without resistance to pay freezes, poor increases, no/peanuts bonuses (even when times are good) to say that we believe and trust our management is doing the right thing. Year after year, we were announce how well the company has performanced and how many billions it has earns, we have done a good job and keep going (pouring our life in). But yet, we have never gain anything from all these successes they pronouce. We asked why but the management always give us politically right anwers that never addresses our bottom questions - where did all our hard work goes to and what it translates to? Year after year we hear news of how a godly income our CEO and executives are getting. Income that would make them look like God over us normal employee. We try hard to understand why this is happening and come to terms with it. And we look at our family and we bear the insult, bear the hurts, tears, frustration, self-condamnation, swallow the grivances and convince ourselves to continue with our daily struggle with inflation and takes whatever the company pays us. We look with admiration at the people else where enjoying the fruit of their labour when times are good but not in HP. Year after year, they continue to think and find ways to manipulate us into contributing more for the company for less. They continue to make us think and believe it's right. But deep inside us, we all know that it all goes to feed the luxurious life of those on the top but yet we are fearful to acknowledge and stand up for. Isn't it clear that the CEO and executives and the likes of them don't care a damn about employees and people like us. To them we are too far and as tiny as ants for their conscience consideration and we are just their money generating machine. They have the lives of many in their hands and they are probably numb to having blood on them to be successful the way they are.
Putting aside the poor wages and the continuous manipulative schemes they throw at us all these years while we poored our life for this company. For my wife and I, a 5% pay cut this time is a total combine pay cut of 10% for us as a family. There are many like us. If the damage is great for one, it's multiplied for the family working here in HP. These are the families who have been bearing this all these years.
Eight years in HP and half of them including this one are pay freeze. No restoration is given when times are good or all the times when company is pronouncing it's many profits. Our pay is already way below market benchmark in both good and bad times. Our pay raise could never catch up with the inflation. Our hard work never pays off and all profits goes to feed only the top few who are already wealthy as God. 5% individual pay cut, 10% pay cut for families in a time of recession. This will be a permanent pay cut that will never be restored even when current bad time recovers. We are here long enough to know HP only takes more and cut more and never restore (dream on). And still at risk of job cut after this. Given the option to say Yes/No to the pay cut, my wife and I decided we will say no. Even if this may mean getting both our names in the blacklist and potentials for the axe. We are putting our family on the line but we have enough... We want to face our fear and do the right thing. Saying no to capitalism, saying no to the management that think they are right and they can get away with abusing us again and again.
The cut is forever (which I can't understand why it should be), and they have the cheek to ask us to sign a consent form that states, "I agree to have my pay cut. Thank you so much because I still have my job."
For the past few years, the increment has always been single digit %. More of an insult than a real compensation. We can't even beat the inflation rate in our countries.
Thanks Damian for writing this piece. I hope Mark Hurts reads it, but then again, would he care?
We will not sign on the reduction and luckily we have Thai labor law to protect the right!!!.
Spanish HP employee. Fed up with this recurring agressive cost policy. Did you know they never release country results? If they started doing so, maybe employees would consider measures like this...
Also, it seems as if the company wants to budget forthcoming workforce reduction with this measure. This is not new for us. Something similar happened just before buying Compaq in 2001.
Too stinky...
They hide behind the "global company" but not when it comes to performance ratings. We in our region have produced in excess of our targets for many years and had no increases and have had our financial worth eroded by 3rd world inflation with no adjustment. Not to mention the insidious nibbling at our benefits programs.
Now when the shareholders are feeling it through reduced profits - not company loss - we have to take a pay cut which I believe to be permanent. Each quarter it’s like a primary school report card - “good work but you can do better”
In years gone by local subsidiaries had some autonomy if they produced results but now everything is controlled in Palo Alto.
Weird, the early communists used to complain about globalisation and now the radical capitalists are bemoaning the same situation.
Similiarities abound in history... Roman empire when the noble elit feed their slaves at the arenas of the gladiators to the lions; the decline of the Chinese dynasty after the great wall was built when the tyronic Emperor Huang destory the fabric of the Chinese society then; Hitler, who set out to systematically erase a part of humanity into oblivion and extinction... and the story goes on.. The lesson to learn is that these dictators and tyrones failed and society will pass judgement on them through time immemorial. As some would believe : what goes round comes around, and karma if it has its way will make them pay or their generations after them will bear their debt to the lives of people whom they destoryed. You wait and see...
i second to what BANDOLF had just said - that most of us here in the PHILIPPINES are only earning less than USD 600. AND WITH THAT WE ALWAYS BARELY MAKE ENDS MEET. i do - with all the rising costs! and then a pay cut?!
for heaven's sake, PHILIPPINES is a 3rd World country. do we need to spell out that we are POOR? that we need all the salary increase we can and SHOULD not just for being poor but for the hard work that we're doing? and then a pay cut?!
we're doing so good...looking at the profit above...and then a pay cut?!
of course i'll choose a pay cut than to lose a job. but my point here is, what is the DIRE REASON for a pay cut?! we're doing so good at this time of the recession that i feel we don't deserve this. i don't feel convinced to share my pay.
yes, open door policy works really well here in the PHILIPPINES. we've directly questioned our managers, our manager of managers, and our manager of managers of managers - and no convincing answer. at least they're all open to us.
no i'm not angry. i'm just sad this is happening to HP.
Mark Hurd hasn't shown me enough reason for a pay cut.
what if i decided not to go for a pay cut? (because it's optional for the Philippines)
what if i contributed my pay cut then i got WFR'ed?
what if nobody contributed?
what if all contributed and it is still not enough?
what is the assurance for EVERYTHING to be OK if EVERYBODY will contribute?
we, at least here in the Philippines, don't know. you see that's why most of us are hesitant for the cut.
Thanks for the open, thoughtful well constructed analysis and comments - and the research on the numbers.
There are a lot of comments I agree with and some that have pushed the margin of decency and sense without adding to the debate.
I'm still not decided on whether to 'volunteer' for the pay cut or not, as I (maybe stupidly) think that there is some merit in trying to keep the workforce intact rather than introducing knee-jerk layoffs based on Q1 results (and the worldwide downturn). On the other hand reading all the low morale employee comments on the blog (and I've read most of them over the past few days) - it may not matter, as the workforce could be decidedly demotivated to actually perform well enough to win HP new or continuing business.
What gets my attention - and everyone has their own circumstances - is that as a 20-plus-year blue-side HP-er - the next option for me in the work-life balance stack is likely to be a whole lot of life (I hope - touch wood) - with an appropriate pension to help me live it. As the pension will be based on the salary I'm earning at the moment, I'm not keen to see that reduced further as there is little time to make up the amount lost....
...so, one thing I'm contemplating is saying 'no' to the salary cut, taking the net salary amount I have gained, investing that in HP shares - to help the company - and when I finish/retire/get laid off/the salary levels are restored (well, you can hope) - donating the shares to charity. Not sure of the real positive effect this might have - its just a token gesture - and it still puts me on any black list that might be created, but it fits in with my fair-minded view of HP in the Bill & Dave era.
The unfortunate thing about the whole scenario of the company situation, Hurd's chip-chip-chipping away at our benefits and the big bonuses for the senior execs is that the whole mess is being driven as a result of Wall Street's analysis of companies' performance and those fat cats in the investment banks who have caused the world-wide credit crunch-cum-crash; Hurd was hired to make HP the best technology company in the world - trouble is that is through Wall Street's eyes and not Bill & Dave's eyes and those of motivated employees.
Looking forward to a few more comments on the comments....
There is more to be announced in the next quarter.
- Your forced furlough is going to extend to two months this year. You will not be paid for these two months.
- Your vacation will be reduced to 5 days per year.
- Your manager will ask you to work on the days on which you take vacation and log your time towards vacation.
But wait there are more ideas in discussion
- We will ask you to donate two bottles of blood to a blood bank that we are going to establish newly. We will sell it to make money
- You don't need two kidneys to survive. Give one to HP. BTW, the employees whose kidneys fail will get their kidney replaced at discounted rates. Don't ask why our employee discounted prices are higher than those of our business discounts.
I am sure you will understand that we have to live in the current market situation. But be assured that we will be the largest organization in the world and you will be proud to be working for HP.
Yours Truly
- CEO
Guess who's on the cover of March's Fortune magazine. I thought I was going to be sick...
Oh yeah, and there's also a new 80-hour cap on vacation time now, use or lose by 31 December. I just don't understand how that's even legal. If I buy a car from Mark Hurd but never drive it, can he take it back and keep the money? I guess so.
Corporate America complains about a lack of employee loyalty while doing very little to ever earn it.
It will cut an additional 10% from all EDS employees in US and Puerto Rico on top of the 5%.
In all fairness, you will go back to your 95% base salary in May 1st. One day after Quarter close. How ironic.
However, they will adjust and see how the upcoming months are in performance to see if they need to adjust again.
We are now officially a company that takes from the poor to give to the rich whenever quarterly numbers are not met. Oh wait, we were that already.
I guess I will have to see if EDS is doing well this month to know if I can pay the phone bills and electrical bills they already saved from moving us out of the office and into the home.
nice observations from Sam - let's hope Obama gets around to our Piggy sooner rather than later; of course the forces of the racist far right that support this behaviour will fight back tooth and claw - when you're used to having your face shoved in the trough with your Ivy League White Boys club, won't take too kindly to everyone else getting some..........
Of course, the fact that we are the only people that they can do this to has no bearing whatsoever on their decision....they couldn't even sign it with their names...only 'EDS Senior Leadership'.
15% cut, for the only part of the company actually making money.
Sorry to not include my name/mail etc, but right now, the fear level is rocketing as quickly as the pay level is dropping....
I agree with everyone posting but what can be done? There was a journalist suggested by a poster above - lohr@nytimes.com - how about EVERYONE sends him their thoughts - best to focus on one and make a splash rather than diluting efforts? It may provoke something, and if not more suggestions may arise from others. What do y'all think? - please reply and see if all readers can sign up to this - tame your emotion and stick to the facts - capture the blatent unfairness and societal/economic damage that this disgraceful inequity is leading towards. The Robber Barons will continue to rape and pillage all around them unless something (other than whining) is done. Make a difference guys - how about it? By the way, I know nothing of this reporter (he may even be under the thumb - see: http://wapedia.mobi/en/News_Corporation?t=2.#3 - if anyone has a better media contact please share before the email blitz goes out!
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=14571
I hate this company. I hate these executives. This is why Jeff Kelly left. He wanted no part of this latest fiasco. His integrity was worth more to him.
The note was signed EDS Leadership. Joe Eazor didn't have the balls to sign it himself.
The time for revolution has come. This will not stop otherwise. My buddy calculated the value of this latest 1 month EDS 10% pay cut....$50M...20% of what Hurd and his band of pirates have plundered in the last two years. Its a joke to see a Eazor note come out 5 minutes after a Livermore (another pirate) note parroting (staying on my pirate theme) what she says. He has sold his soul. I have no respect for him or any of the other EDS puppets.
Keep in mind, EDS outperformed HP in the last quarter.
Arg Arg Arg!!!
Man, you are one naive dude. I know the guy who sent the email to Turd in Q1. Guess what happened. Yes, he still works at HP, but our own Anne Liverwurst called him up and tore him a new one. You can bet your behind that's he's on the "list" now.If you really believe crap like the VOW will change anything or "Open Door Policy" still works I have news for you....wake up and smell the coffee ! My manager tells us "Let's keep our heads down and hope they're going to leave our group alone"...encouraging, isn't it ? BTW, I worked with P&G in Cincinnati...did some design work for their Storage solutions a few years back.
Hey Markie boy,
just in case it's really you. Over 90 % of the employees of "your" company hate your guts, just thought you would like to know.
"We were doing fine as a LEADER in the services field until you immoral fatcats plundered us and started ripping apart a successful business
have a look in the mirror mate ……… it is YOU and your mates causing this crap ………. not EDS"
No worries mate.
We didn't tell the Turd to buy you guys.We were doing fine being the LARGEST COMPUTER COMPANY IN THE WORLD. I have news for you though. There is no more "EDS", there's only "EDS an HP company", so we're all in the same boat here. Let's not beat each other up, let's just tell Mark and the BOD what a bunch of f*ckwads they are.
Need I say more?
______________________________________________
From: EDS Worldwide Marketing - Communications
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:05 PM
Subject: Additional, Temporary Compensation Adjustments for EDS U.S. & Puerto Rico Employees
To EDS Business Unit Employees in the United States and Puerto Rico:
[content removed for company confidentiality purposes but the salient points are....]
Unfortunately, we need to take additional action. Specifically, we have decided to make a temporary, additional reduction in base salary affecting EDS business unit employees in the United States and Puerto Rico.
Base salaries for all United States and Puerto Rico employees in the EDS business unit will be temporarily reduced beyond those reductions previously announced by HP on February 18, as follows:
An additional, temporary reduction of 10 percent in base salary effective for April 2009
Base salary will not be reduced for employees below an annualized, full-time equivalent income of $40,000 by this additional, temporary action
In May 2009, base salary for United States and Puerto Rico employees in the EDS business unit will be reinstated to the levels of base salary effective on March 16. This includes reductions previously outlined in HP’s February 18 announcement.
[end of edit]
My take on this... "thanks for all the hard work, sacrifice and heavy lifting, EDS'ers, now bend over again, for the good of the (HP) Company." After almost twenty years with EDS, I can say with confidence the likes of Brown, Rittenmeyer and now Livermore-Hurd have successfully removed all remaining institutional influence of our once proud Legacy, and have pillaged what remained. When Jeff (Heller) finally retired I knew an Era had ended, but little did I know then how far (morale) would decline. Considering how many high performers were paid so little - often well below the low end of the salary range - or were coded below their actual role and scope of responsibility - can you blame them?
Not only do I fear for my colleagues, but I also fear for our clients, partners and yes, ultimately our shareholders. As one domino falls, so will the others, unless this madness stops.
The top 6 executives in HP compensation for 2008 is already 15.7% of the combined savings of 300000 employees' 5% salary cut for a whole year. Add in the level 3 & 4 executives' combined compensation for 2008. That will probably account for another $100M in compensation.
If Mark and his cohorts including the directors is thinking of their employees they should do a comparison on how much savings HP would have if they cut their bonuses altogether. How in the world can you not live like a king for $1M a year in salary. Does it hurt if you just take in $1M in bonus instead of $41M.
They should take off their masks of hypocrisy and stop their bleeding heart act and show their greedy face. The least they can do if be honest about it.
I will just adopt a mercenary attitude to work. You get what you paid for nothing less nothing more. Once good times is back, time to say goodbye! I have K rating straight for the last few years but it all just paper talk. It does not translate to anything concrete for me. Bonus for Services employees for 2008 is less than half a months salary!
In the USA the cut is not a choice, it's a mandate.
So our only option is to quit and find another job or bend over and take it. (Hope you don't need health insurance for your family, nor have a pre-existing condition.)
As it is the cuts keep coming. We're not being allowed to staff a contract required position because there is no body to fill it and we're not being allowed to get a contractor, so HP will lose money since the slot isn't filled and the customer is wondering what they need HP for.... It's nuts.
I'm also seeing top performers being shown the door because of the numbers game. Management has been given targets and they have to meet them. If your account closes down(end of contract, merger, whatever), no matter how well you perform you will be shown the door. Does a sane company do that?
I agree whole-heartedly with your blog Damian. The execs need to be reigned in. The next big corporation that announces massive lay-offs, I'd love to see Wall Street pound that stock into the ground. That would give them all pause in the future. The thing that really galls me about this moves is that the issue isn't whether or not HP is making a profit. The issue is whether or not they're making ENOUGH of a profit.
I really wonder who Mr. Huard thinks will be buying HP printers and PCs in the near future. Taxes go up, salary goes down, jobs disappear (meaning excess inventory at businesses).
Dear Mark,
First of all let me tell you that I would be glad as an HP Manager to be able to discuss directly with you about this, but as you may not know your predecessor Carly and yourself created an ugly ambiance of fear which blocks, except on blogs like this one, any true & honest comments which may help you to understand the context and the huge mess in which you and all your colleagues from the "Wall street gang" put HP and all the industry...
You started your message by "I believe many of you have all it wrong".. how do you dare saying something like this? Aren't you able to think one second that YOU may have all it wrong? Are you sure that you and your gang have the perfect truth and the answer to everything? Aren't you able to get that the dollars you get are insane and out of proportion with the added value you bring to the company? Are you a real human being with a minimum of basic intelligence, common sense and very simply an heart and a soul? I'm a manager at HP (quite high by the way) and I feel ashame when I see the way "our " employees are treated. I say "ours" because I feel, as manager, responsible for the well being of the employees, not only because I have a heart and a soul and because I believe in human being (and in God by the way.. Sorry to enter into private matters but are you? If you are, do you really think that your acts are in line with your faith?) .. I believe that this is THE BEST way to have the optimum efficiency from the employees ...
And second point your are 100% wrong when talking about "the real owners of the company". This is non only a non sense but a ridiculous statement which send us back to the dark age on slavery, exploitation of men by men and the sad time of the industrial revolution with those tragic and bloody riots.
The OWNERS are ALL the ones who make a company successful and alive inlcuding ALL the employees... They are the body , the soul, the muscles of the company... the shareowners are just a piece of equipment which help, like clothes to live. Shareowners are NOT essential to a company because you may have a company without shareowners (it can be the employees themselves, yes.. you may not know this but exist in several places in the world and I recommend you to read some books from Nobel prize winner Muhammad Yunus). If all employees quit and disappear..... you will have NOTHING in your hands... Think about this...
And third think that one day it may change dramatically... The days of "robber barons" of Capitalism are counted like it was for Rail and Steel ones. We saw recently some former or current country president sued for "crimes against human kind".... it will happen soon that some top executives will go to court for same reason... I do not want to give menaces, just to make you understand that nothing stays for ever and no abuse and crime stay un punished for ever...
As a final word I strongly recommend you to look at you in the mirror on the morning and ask you basic questions: Do I deserve what I get? Do I really need the huge amount of dollarsI get? Does it really bring me more happiness? Why do I need more? Can I be really proud to send people to welfare and despair when I grab so much?
best regards hoping that it is really you and that you will get a minimum of it
I tell you,
It’s a myth that, when we accept the permanent pay cut, the bonus and profit greedy clique of HP executives
• will fire less of us
• will not cut further our compensation
• will pay us more, when the economy recovers
• will treat us better in better times
It’s a myth that, when YOU accept your pay cut, you can be sure
• your manager will not fire YOU, when he is asked to reduce his team
• hard working personnel like YOU are not laid off
• nice people like YOU are excluded from the work force reduction
• you will survive again like all the times before
And it’s a myth that these bonus and profit greedy clique of HP executives will change their lousy behaviour and inhuman and egoistic objectives because we moan and whine in Damian’s blog and repeat again and again what has been said already 100 times before.
AND it might be a myth too, when we stand up, demonstrate publicly and take action, that this will secure our jobs, but better get fired in fighting for our jobs and a better HP than as a caitiff coward.
I have respect for the EDS people in Germany and all their protest and action so far.
I am sure you’re not interested in hearing any more vitriol from the likes of your subordinates, so I will try to keep this as benign as possible. I just cannot rest until I know that I have said what is in my heart. It has been stated that you have no problem receiving personal emails from people, but I am not sure that I can trust that no retaliation will come to me. Until such time that I believe the environment is accepting I will hide behind my computer just as you have.
Let me preface this with the fact that I am not one of those people that feel that I should be making 10% pay increases year after year. I understand we’re in a recession. I was totally not even fazed when I originally heard about the pay freeze (in December). I became upset with the pay cut, but only moderately so. But now that I have seen that it is not a sacrifice that is being equally shared, I have become incensed. So, after you implement your next cut (which right now is just a rumor), I will be paying for the privilege to work for you (after I finish paying for day care expenses and other bills I will have a negative left over). Wow, lucky me.
Let’s look at the sacrifices we’ve both had to make. You say that you’ve “personally have had to curtail the amount of travel I am doing on our corporate jet, and I am taking less vacation time as well.” Duly noted. For the people in your demographic (the wealthy jet set) that is considered a sacrifice. Well here is an example of sacrifice from us little ordinary folk. I recently found out I was pregnant again. And instead of being happy about the new addition to my family I panicked. I seriously considered an abortion. And I didn’t just “think” about it. I actually went down to the clinic, paid my money, prepared myself, but left (fetus untouched) after seeing the ultrasound. Now I am so stressed out from worrying about the impact of the financial strain coupled with the new addition that the baby barely even moves and kicks as it should. It just cowers all day long, with its heart beating so fast it makes me feel as though I’m having an asthma attack all day.
You see, even though I am just an insignificant blip in the world and you’re a real somebody, Mr. Hurd, we have some things in common. We’ve both made some choices we’re not so proud of and we’ve both been affected by factors outside of our control. I have even leveled the playing field and put my business out here knowing that I would be judged just as harshly as you have been on this site. The difference between us is my perspective. If I would have just looked at the baby as a blip on a monitor then I could have proceeded with the procedure and absolved myself of any guilt. But I have to be one of those people (silly me) that values lives. I know that no matter how insignificant the size of this new being relative to the outside world, that life had value. I became humbled knowing that that its very existence depended on my choice, so I knew I didn’t have the luxury to be so cavalier. So yes, this choice will cause my family to have to make some very serious sacrifices, but I can live with myself and I am proud of the decision. You seem to be annoyed that there is a blog where people discuss your choice and there is a link to it from your personal wikipedia site. If you were really proud of your decision, you would have no problem with it being posted anywhere. You would also not have to wait until after 5:00 to have the emails sent out to people. If it’s truly “just business,” then you’d have nothing to hide.
When I do leave HP (and that is not an “if” but “when”) I will not be one of those people wishing your death or any other horrible thing to happen. It would satisfy my petty ego to no end but give nothing to the world. All I can wish for is that God, the Universe or whatever entity you chose to worship (other than the deity of yourself) fills you with the joy and understanding of knowing the true purpose of life. I hope you use this understanding to actually start enriching lives instead of just not acknowledging others or destroying lives in your quest to attain more money that you can even spend in the rest of your life (you’re already 52).
To my other fellow “blips.” Just know that you do matter to someone, even if not to Mr. Hurd. If you feel mistreated, don’t sit around and complain - DO SOMETHING. We all get what we give in this earth (even if some people’s comeuppance seems highly overdue) and if we accept poor treatment and use all kinds of excuses to justify why we won’t leave then you have no one to blame for anger but yourself. I’ve talked long enough. I wish everyone well. Thank you.
"EDS - where people make (up) the difference!"
What i wanted to point here is an interesting information. Please take a look at the IBM executives compensation numbers for 2008. There is a summary table at http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/51143/0... page 39.
You can compare with HP executives similar table at http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/47217/0... page 44
And you will see that our executives are not paid at the market price considering HP and IBM are similar size company . M. Hurd was paid 1.5 more than Mr Palmisano the CEO of IBM. Almost all the others HP executives won 20 M$ as an average and in the same time their IBM counterpart were paid 7 M$ for the same kind of job.
I think it is some numbers that the shareholders should be aware of. The shareholders have closed their eyes too long and provide to the HP executives an unlimited right to reward themselves with millions of dollars and no limits.
I will suggest, instead of cuting our pay by 5%, to ask mister Hurd to pay us first "at his own vision of the market price", i.e 1.5 to 3 times than our IBM colleagues and then after, we will able discuss about pay cut ;-) .
- HP took away GAP pay (pager pay) last year (reducing some salaries by 7.5%).
- HP hasn't given any raises in 3 years (maybe more for some). No "cost of living" increases....nothing.
- Took away e-awards (mini-bonuses for excelling, and going above and beyond).
- Is forcing us now to pay for our own internet/phone/cell phones to work for HP.
- Moved tons of people to work from home (so that they can save office space costs themselves, and make us pay for our own services and office spaces).
- Forced a 5% pay cut to all employees in March.
- Is now forcing an ADDITIONAL 10% pay cut, because they can't plan out more than a month??
Mark Hurd:
- Please stop this immediately, and begin to revert things.
- Give up some of your $45 MILLION, so that the loyal employees of your company can make their home and bill payments, or ask your executives to chip in some of their millions.
- Pretty soon, the only employees you have left will be those willing to pay you for the "privilege" of working for you (which is where you're pushing the company towards).
- Why should the employees care about a company that quite obviously doesn't care about them?
My salary is now almost 25% less than what it was before, after putting in countless hours of my own time (off the clock), and thousands of dollars of my own money towards working for HP. I have given well over 100% every day that I have been with HP, and they have shown me again and again that they not only do not award this behaviour, but they actually condemn it, by showing the HP employees what they really think of them.
Thanks, Mark Hurd, for showing us all what you really think of us. You couldn't have made it clearer.
All in an effort to increase PROFITABILITY. No kidding - this is was was stated in the cut announcement (At least they were honest about their intent.)
Thye might have been honest about their intent, But they didnt have the guts to sign the email znd let us know who made this decieson. It was simply signed "EDS Senior Leadership"
A little about myself and ex co-workers. We were a proprietary group of 9 techs handling a single client. Our workload dictated through "industry standards" that we should have had a team of 20 heads. That isn't a complaint, but a fact based on reviewing many, many tech mags and websites for my particular job. Over a period of 16 months we were whittled down to 3 people even as our workload more than doubled. The remaining 3 of us were working an average of 60+ hrs a week and more to meet our SLA, while we performed a major client upgrade within a 24x7x365 production environment. (took 7 months) No vacations, and no OT pay, while we waited for additional help...which came in the form of "Best Shore" headcount in Argentina. Suffice it to say that besides the language barrier (they took English lessons 1 hr. each day)creating a major problem, they had little to no technical experience above a 1st yr admin level....but they are paid 25% of our ave. salary, so bring them on and train them remotely when you have time.
To add insult to injury, I was laid off the day before I was to take vacation accrued from LAST YEAR. Bottom line there...hundreds of hours of comp time, 6 weeks vacation....gone without a thought. In my 16 years with the combined companies, I never missed a single day of work. Every one of my performance reviews were outstanding, but compensation was still an issue. I worked nights...weekends...holidays...whatever was asked of me, and made sure the client was up and running no matter the personal impact. My co-worders held the same attitude, and we were routinely praised for our dedication and work ethics. We took a lot of pride in doing our jobs and being the best at what we did. The customer was very happy, Then comes the re-org.
My new manager of two months told me the layoff was strictly a "numbers" thing. That I was one of several hundred that was being let go that week. I later found out that since I was not one of the core heads under my new manager, and didn't contribute directly to that departments bottom line...I was expendable under THAT premis. One would think a manager would look out for the company as a whole, the big picture, and many do I'm sure...but not always.
I'm not criticizing the "Best Shore" people by any means, they need a job too...but management (Mark and friends)chose to go this route to "save money" and ultimately secure THEIR bonuses, while drastically reducing the efficiency and expertise of the techs that are the backbone of the company.
As it currently stands, I was told that I can look and apply for another job within the company for a period of 60 days from the date of my layoff. Unfortunately, when I did apply for a job, I was told that HP/EDS WILL NOT HIRE IN THE UNITED STATES....PERIOD. How true this is, I don't know...I do know I was told by the manager that all his open positions were to be filled by best shore heads only. I communicate almost on a daily basis with ex-coworkers, and to say moral is low is a major understatement. Many have told me they are actively seeking other employment so they can get as far away from HP/EDS as they possibly can. The management knows they are so entrenched within many of the client operations, that it would take years to separate from them and go with a competitor, so there is some job stability for them even as they cut heads here and send jobs out of the country. End result...they cut and destroy the workforce here and send jobs elsewhere to pad their pockets.
I know a lot of the "Best Shore" people are competent workers, but my experience has shown me that there is not a single country that can compare to the quality of work and dedication that is right here at home.
Management is thinking that they can maintain minimum quality standards while cutting salaries/jobs here to move them best shore. I have been gone almost 2 months now, and my team has failed the SLA for the past two months. Now, I am NOT saying the failures are based completely on MY knowledge and abilities being removed from the equation, but as a 3rd level support tech, I was the safety net. That net is no longer in place, and the results have been failing the SLA for the past two months. The difference here is that I have the experience, knowledge, resources, and understanding of the client infrastructure to quickly and efficiently resolve the issues and get the customer back up and running within a short period of time. The best shore people have been able to resolve most issues...but as an example, one recent failure that I would have resolved within a couple of hours...and within the SLA agreement...took the best shore team over two days to resolve. This resulted in an SLA failure, which amounts to a penalty of much more than my yearly salary. Another problem still in need of resolution has put the account on red alert ( and already failed the SLA for March) due to persistent failures that the best shore heads are unable to resolve. This is entirely due to lack of experience/understanding of the client infrastructure. This isn't the fault of the best shore heads, but the greediness of management to attempt to save money by relying on inexperienced personnel to hopefully figure it out. Efficiency and expediency is an integral part of the business when it comes to uptime. Try putting the pin back in the grenade AFTER it goes off.
I was told recently that training expenses have been cut to near zero...which means training will be OJT in a production environment...with no mentor or experienced personnel to turn to for help/support. Disaster waiting to happen. Again, this is not to slight the abilities of the best shore heads, but tossing those people in the fire and expecting them not to get burned is assinine to say the least. Makes a lot of sense to willingly and knowingly put the company and client in a difficult and losing position to save a few bucks on employee pay.
My situation is not unique by any means. I have spoken with a lot of techs in other areas over the past 6 months that are in the same position....or worse....their teams have been decimated by the best shore initiative, and the lack of quality/experienced support or training for those best shore heads has reached the breaking point for them. Many of them are still at HP/EDS only as a last resort. And the pay cuts....really boosts morale.
The bottom line is.....Management has shown me that dedication, work ethics, and pride are NOT something they care about within HP/EDS.
I do know this: I'm being forced to take a 5% pay cut after years of no/humours bonus/raises. There is NO WAY this situation will ever get better and best solution is to get out of HP and IT as this is the way of the future.
In the mean time my temporary solution to this problem is simple math:
I/we work x number of days per year, 5% of those days I will not be feeling well and will not be able to make it to work. I do not plan on sticking around long enough to care about the moral implications of this action. I certainly dont' plan on giving HP X number of free days of work either; I'm not too bright but my parents didn't bring me up to be a sucker either. Personally I'd rather loose my job than be taken for a fool. There is life after HP people...don't let ANYONE let you think otherwise.
I want to start a HP UNION to stop the injustice that is being done. I have for years and I believe that we can do it together and change everything! I am just getting started and I am already talking to experts in the field as well as legal council!
Any advice would be great!
hpunionrevolution@gmail.com
I was part of Outsourcing Services with HP and eventually moved over to EDS a part of HP.
We get an email from the EDS Worldwide Marketing and Communications team.. NOT EVEN an Executive. not Ann Livermore, not Eazor... but it goes on to tell us that those of us living in US and Puerto Rico:
- Will take an ADDITIONAL 10% salary cut effective for April 2009
This will be reinstated in May 2009 but they reserve the right to make further adjustments as required in the upcoming months.
I understood the 5% cut. This is now going down to the business level where not only have we sacrifice for the good of the corporation, we are now the sacrificial lambs for EDS to hit their numbers.
What message is this sending? That its okay now to arbitrarily take from its employees quarterly whenever the numbers are not met? So what would happen if EDS does make its numbers, will they give it back to the employees that gave back to meet its quarterlies? So when it cannot find enough people to WFR, they pass on the liabilities to all of the employees in ONLY US and Puerto Rico.. why? Because they cannot get away with this where labor Unions exist. Try this in Europe, France? Guess Ill look forward to that stimulus check Obama's gonna provide us quarterly.....
I really would like to see the bonus payouts of the EDS execs for the year come end of FY09. Then balance that with what they made US/Puerto Rico employees gave up in their salaries.
Is this the message and how we treat our employees now? We don't even have people that want to be accountable. They are now called: "EDS Worldwide Marketing - Communications" ...
"Base salaries for all United States and Puerto Rico employees in the EDS business unit will be temporarily reduced beyond those reductions previously announced by HP on February 18, as follows:
An additional, temporary reduction of 10 percent in base salary effective for April 2009
Base salary will not be reduced for employees below an annualized, full-time equivalent income of $40,000 by this additional, temporary action
In May 2009, base salary for United States and Puerto Rico employees in the EDS business unit will be reinstated to the levels of base salary effective on March 16. This includes reductions previously outlined in HP’s February 18 announcement. While we have no plans for an additional base salary reduction, we will continue to closely monitor the performance of our business and make further adjustments as required in the coming months."
Follow this link and you can see HP's CEO compensation compared to the industry average.
http://investing.businessweek.com/businessweek/...
Hurd's bonus was 2700%! What was your bonus for 2008? 0% 3%? 5%? or even 7%?
If Hurd worked 265 days and every day 15 hours in 2008
- his daily salary was more than $150 000
- his hourly salary was more than $10 000
Realizing this makes me feeling as sick as a parrot.
Come on, don't let them kid and twitt us. We are the HP!!!
To EDS Business Unit Employees in the United States and Puerto Rico:
An additional, temporary reduction of 10 percent in base salary effective for April 2009
So not only did they take away 5% forever in April we are going to loose additional 10%.
From: EDS Worldwide Marketing - Communications
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 5:05 PM
Subject: Additional, Temporary Compensation Adjustments for EDS U.S. &
Puerto Rico Employees
[content removed for company confidentiality of internal email reasons
>Sincerely,
>The EDS Senior Leadership Team
All this will cause is animosity towards HP and the collapse of the company itself. I can understand holding salaries, even the 5% decrease to get us through the "lean times", but an additional 10% targeted directly at the EDS employees is JUST PLAIN WRONG. The trickle down through the economy will be felt across the country. Mark Hurd and company ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Base salaries for all United States and Puerto Rico employees in the EDS business unit will be temporarily reduced beyond those reductions previously announced by HP on February 18, as follows:
An additional, temporary reduction of 10 percent in base salary effective for April 2009
So on top of the 5%, the US & Puerto Rico folks will get another 10% reduction.
They are saying that is temporary, but I guess we'll have to wait & watch what comes next.............
It certainly is distressing to do 2/3 times the amount of work (caused by all the staff reductions) and get paid 15% LESS!!
What a bunch of bunk!!!!!
Since 2005, our French union has been managing two blogs about what's going on at HP :
http://cftchp.blogspot.com (french speaking)
http://hpwfr.blogspot.com/ (english, the memory of all HP Corporate greeds, inclunding HP Gate scandal day by day)
Theses blogs are now connected with this one. Here is a gift that was published by a former HP employee, worth reading :
I leave you now HP
They say the "lights will still go on at HP" without me here. I wonder who will miss the love I have given this company, I wonder who will miss how much I cared about The HP Way. I often chose to come in early, work through lunch and stay late. I thought what I was doing was so important. Especially when it was for customers or when it was something so new, What we were doing would change the world. But the times I was the most selfless, was for my co-workers who needed me. Maybe it was to review a document, give feedback, change the code, whatever... This is what I will miss most, knowing that I was important to my co-workers. I will miss the lifelong friends I have made We had so many days of meaningful work together. We made a difference and we knew it. We understood the power of a team. I will miss that where ever I went in the world, I always found great HP people. People who cared as much as I did. People who loved our HP culture enough to keep it precious. These are the great HP people who shared in success And when times were tough were the first to say, "We'll get through it together". I will miss the picnics and the beer busts. But mostly I will miss the managers who believed in me, who challenged me, who told me that I was a leader and important to the business. I will miss the profit sharing checks. Not for the money but because I knew I was a part of something so much greater than myself. I will always remember the handshake and the "Thank you" of the general manager. Those were some of my favorite times. I will miss the laughter and excitement of creating new businesses and improving processes. I will miss the serious times when customers' needs were on the line. We were all engaged for one purpose. It was our finest hour. I will miss saying I helped create a great HP product. And now will relish in how it changed the world. I wouldn't have missed that for anything. How proud I am to have been an HP employee. I would have worked for free for you HP. I loved you that much. You should know that I cried when Bill and Dave died. I had finally figured out what values really mean to a company's culture. My only regret is I didn't have a chance to say thank you. I'll take that learning with me as a final gift of all the years, of the great company Bill & Dave built. I leave you now HP.
As a shareholder of this company (HP), I say that huge savings will be achieved if you ask ALL employees to give up ALL their stock-options over 5,000 per year. Of course, as the top manager, you will be a role model for all execs and wiil proceed immediately with such action.
This bright and efficient move will have 2 main consequences :
1/ You will stop saying to the community of investors the HP is a crap when it comes to investment. This is actually what you are saying when you sell all stock as soon as you have exercised these options,
2/ This will stop burning cash by billions (8 to 10 per year) just to tell me the story that you are thinking of my wealth. What I see is my HPQ stock is valued less and less and that your wallet is getting bigger by millions each and every year. As a side comment, cash may become of the utmost importance in this crisis. Please keep it for the company, note for your pocket or wallet.
Then, you may even think of all "standard" shareholders by increasing the dividend. HP has the money to do it without jeopardizing the future.
In addition, HP will have plenty of money to stop this disgusting move of forcing salary reductions, which will end up with :
a) The best performers will turn to companies offering decent pay,
b) Huge company mis-performance through pervasive demoralisation (appreciate the understatment ?) of the employees.
Remember, Mark, the key asset of HP is not you, it is all its workforce. And especially in service businesses !
Nothing clever to say or to add apart from that I will not accept to cut my salary by 5% when asked.
In summary for those not willing translating:
This Mark Hurd is just a student of this ex-GE CEO namely Jack Welch, the inventor of the profit scheme that has put today's world into such economical trouble. He now dare saying his idea was the most stupid idea over the world. And the whole world suffered from this stupid idea, CEO's over the world flocking as sheeps over this.
Get a life you pious prick.
Talk to some of my Filipiono collegues and find out what it's like to be chained to the machine called HP. They are the ones you claim to be happy.
Do they have a choice? Yes. Eat or starve. All 1st world giants are raping asian countries, next will be the African countries once the asians can no longer take it and demand better conditions. If they leave HP, NIke are the same, and so on and so on.
By the way, I'm onshore in Australia. I complain, why shouldn'd we complain? Pricks like you are the reason why Execs rape and pillage cos you don't want to rock the boat.
I leave you to say...
Good bye the good old HP.
A reflection of our happy Asian IT workers?
Generally big / mid / small company employee only know who is CEO/CFO/VP etc...but never ever get a chance to know their salaries.
Where is our great company HR VP's defining compensation & benifits to employee ? for VP's it's more than 200% jump in year and other employees it's pay cuts ? Really great HR strategy ..............i love it...hope all others too!.... Keep it up.
Day's are not far away when such big company will come up with question of survivial instead of great revenu growth. Sound funny ? no it's not. When company is not interested to pass any benifits to employee who are putting their life and asking to quit or pay cuts, even company is thinking and believing that employee will continue long term relationship ? why just because financial crises ?
So top shots in company is entitle to get 85 - 280% jump in salary and others are here for pay cuts to see the next door ?
It's good learning curve for all employee across the world to feel which is right company for you to work. My answer is right company who will take care of your problems and pay the right money for your efforts and career and you as employee will take care of company work as return.
Hey guys time to be 100% professional, DO not get emotionally attached with company.
TIME TO UNITE ANS READY FOR CHANGE!
I work deep in the heart of HP. I picked this email up from HP management this morning...
Mark Hurd
Executive council
Due to further deterioration in the economic conditions and the rsing cost of electricity, gas and oil. The executive council and i have taken the decision to turn off the light at the end of the tunnel.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
As an EDS employee I was reasonably content, eversince the merge it has been nothing but misery, motivation is down so everything else for that matter. Fortunately I received good pay rises in the last 18 months after not having had one for 30 months (due to a lousy manager) and having fought this hard to get to where I wanted to be, there is not a chance in hell that I will take a paycut!!! When times were good times we seldom got 5% payrises so how long will it take to recoup the 5% now that times are bad? my gues is 5 years if we are lucky.
LETS ALL STAND TOGETHER AND SAY NO!!!!!!!!!!!
I get the "bottom line" that the grunts have to suffer sometimes for the collective's success, but surely there's gotta be a better way than to starve all the cows because the price of hay went up and expect more gallons of milk (or at least the same quantity) to be produced. Why not cut off sections of the company that are totally unnecessary and losing profit and use the money not wasted on those sections anymore to bolster the ones that are necessary and are capable of producing more revenue with happy workers? Why poison the whole herd thanks to a couple of sick cows? Sure you'll look like an asshole for taking a cow or two outside the barn and blowing their brains out, but you'll look like an even bigger one by slowly killing all of them. Unfortunately I couldn't tell you what sections these are, but I'm fairly certain they exist. I'm definitely no businessperson but could someone with pertinent knowledge explain why this strategy wouldn't work?
I'm just throwing that out there because we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes you've gotta adapt or die, and that change can be good...but the whole fetid way things are being handled right now just seems to stink way too badly. I'm worried that in the future (or even presently) other corporate heads may think HP management is really onto something here and nowhere will be a great place to work anymore unless something's done to keep this kind of thing in check.
To the naysayers who say get over it, life's unfair... who's to say this won't happen in your neck of the woods next?
Personally I think whatever global mustering people are speaking of needs to stretch beyond this company and do something about the long-time screwing the general working class population gets.
and Im now concerned about making it to year 12.
My two cents:
A significant majority of the executive pay is variable, meaning it's not guaranteed if the company doesn't do well (not sure about restrictive stock prices) -this is how it should be for the top.
Mark Hurd and his staff are still overpaid.
Personal use of corporate jets need to stop - for symbolic purposes.
I'm guessing based on the postings here that current employees don't realize how well they are paid in total compensation: Ultra-rich benefits, way above market 401k matching, almost two months of vacation, retirement care, support for legacy pensions, ESPP, annual bonus, etc.
More employee pay should be at risk. - this is a basic component of a performance culture.
Overall, I trust Mark Hurd's judgement on managing this company. He has done an EXTRODINARY job of turning HP around and making it a leader again -they will write books about it. It was a disaster under Lew Platt (who missed "the internet" as a market!) and an inconsistent mess under Carly Fiorina. Yes, many US jobs had to go, and that's the unfortunate downside. If you don't like working there and want to leave, please check out the job boards at HP competitors such as Sun or Dell. ha, ha.
Of course I'm biased, that what I meant when I said this post was only my opinion. My bias is towards the fair and equitable treatment of employees.
Have some decency, Mark. Or have you sold that along with your soul?
Who is the robot from earlier? You know the world is screwed up when nobody in the media says a word about it. It has to be mentioned on the “New media”. This is really the same ol' crap for me. As if 1 sell-out (Capellas) wasn’t enough!! I got Carly! The tell me what I want to hear or your fired, Carly. The talk a lot and do nothing Carly. Now I get the ruthless, I deserve all the cash from OPEX I saved you, Mark Hurd. How does that work? Save the cash and give it to Mark? 0 raises in the last 5 years, give it to Mark. Make an extra million this quarter give it to management. Mark is not the only guilty party here. The board is a bunch of elitists that work for other mega-companies doing the same thing to us. To top it off we hav ebeen pouring our money into all of those comapnies via our 401K's (104K's if you ask me). They are all in agreement that we aren't worth the benfits they pay for? They pay for? Get that one? ha! ha!
That’s why HP does not allow you to come back without executive approvals now. We used to get raises by leaving and coming back! HR was quiet, until they managed to lose staff! That was of course due to “acquisitions”!!!
Many functional groups in HP are carrying their own weight plus that of the top 6 executives. I am in agreement to organize a work slowdown until they reduce their own benefits. What will happen to us? Let’s look at the gutted HP and Compaq Cultures, shall we? The once proud, professional group with loads of integrity (no pun intended) and honestly. Those that believe their names and their word means something!
In the NEW HP, you have way too many idiots throughout HP. HP now hires hot (single or soon to be single) women and country club men to sell their products. I know a rep that made 100%+ quota for many years. Can't say the exact number becaus ebig brother may read this!
They increased his Quota every year too! He missed one year and they fired him for performance reasons. The poor bastard didn't participate in the "Club". He had to find a job in another division of HP. They soon replaced him with a stereotypical blonde. Oh, and paid her about half. What the “F” have you done for me lately?
Those elitists jerks will not agree to a slowdown, they want to gain while you lose. Same sick cycle. They take advantage of us every day as it is. They don't have a clue how to do the job BUT one thing they do know.... They know how to sit back and see us shot down one at a time while they benefit in the shadows.
I had a rep make 200%+ of her Quota and another make 100% of her quota. I got 86.7% of my quota. Yes, these are the new reps with lower pay and quota’s. Oh, but hot bodies. How does that happen? Where do you think management came from? Nothing but a bunch of suck-up, no-lifes that have one goal: Screw someone out of money, regardless of need by either party.
Unfortunately, we would only serve to provide a target on our backs to HR! I have a family and commitments and our wonderful government is putting enough weight on my back. Don’t you think management knows that? Don’t you think the pay reduction is a big message to work 80 hours a week and shut up? I have never bothered to contribute to these types of discussions because they are normally counterproductive. But I am mad as hell!
What: Official Slack Off Day in every HP Office World Wide. Just don't do anything! Give at least 10% less effort the entire day! Bigger slackers will be rewarded (but not with pay).
When: Wednesday, April 1 (And this is no joke)
Where: Your office. Either shop online or just talk around the water cooler...if that hasn't been taken away already. For those of you who work from home...feel free to sleep in a bit and take your kids to the park.
Why: Read the article above! Pay cuts and poor management!
I see that Mark Hurd responded to this BLOG. Mark if you are reading this BLOG can you please stand up and address the employees with honesty and integrity. I’m sure there are many questions employees want to ask but are too afraid to speak up. Maybe you can start by answering the following.
• Employees are taking a base salary reduction of 5%. Announced Friday night EDS business unit employees are taking an additional temporary10% base pay reduction on top of the 5%. Please explain, articulate and justify these actions during times when the company is still making a profit. Please explain…
• Why haven’t employees received base salary wages during the HP profitable years but you and your senior managers continue to receive millions of dollars in total compensation. The standard response of some employees received base salary increases is the wrong answer.
• Are you and your senior manager giving back millions of dollars in total compensation? If my memory serves me you received 42.5 million in 2008 and 27 million in 2007.
• Is HP headed for Bankruptcy
• Has HP asked the Government for bailout money?
• And finally please explain to us all of the benefit cuts employees continue to receive. How profitable does HP need to be and how wealthy do you and your senior managers need to be at the expense of every employee.
I challenge you to answer these questions and do the employees a favor and save the BS for someone else.
He needs to understand that " togeher we stand united and strong hopefully he wants to maintain it"!!!!!
Let God take his toll!!!
It's time for HP workers to stand up for the HP Way and stop these abuses. http://www.cwa-union.org/organize/
Divvent talk Shite. Get some self respect and stop excusing the inexcusable
This man has picked your pocket an will continue to do so.
Be a man
Let's take on the CEO's!
what up ? Looks you're not updating your blog any more...
One thing that does astound me - how many responses from the newly acquired